How to find the Right Mental Health Support During Menopause with Guest Liz Maughn

We talk a lot about the physical symptoms of perimenopause and menopause here on Midlife Unlimited®, but the changes we're experiencing go far wider and deeper than this.

The impact on our mental health is huge, as is navigating the potential minefield of getting the right help... and avoiding misdiagnosis of how we are feeling as depression rather than menopause-related.

Midlife Unlimited® is all about having those conversations and ensuring there's no embarrassment in letting others know what we are going through and asking for help.

I've been there, and so has my guest Liz Maughn, mental health trainer and founder of Empower Mental Health Training.

Connect with Liz

https://empowermht.co.uk/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/empowermht/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizmaughn

http://www.instagram.com/empowermht

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm your host, Kate Porter, the Midlife Metamorphosis Coach, and I know what it's like to feel stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in the mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know you're not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and put up with it. You don't have to play it safe. Midlife Unlimited is all about ripping off that mask and telling it how it really is. Nothing is off limits because together there's no limit to what we can achieve. So, welcome to today's episode. Now, we talk a lot about the physical symptoms of perimenopause and menopause here on Midlife Unlimited. But the changes we're experiencing go far wider and deeper than merely physical. The impact on our mental health is huge, as is navigating the potential minefield of getting the right help and avoiding misdiagnosis of how we're feeling as depression rather than menopause related. Midlife Unlimited is all about having those conversations and ensuring there's no embarrassment in letting others know what we're going through and asking for help. I've been there, and my guest today has too, because I'm delighted to be joined by Liz Morn, mental health trainer and founder of Empower Mental Health Training, to talk about how to find the right mental health support during perimenopause and menopause. So welcome, Liz. It's fabulous to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Hi, Kate. Thanks for inviting me. It's a pleasure for me to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Well, when we met, we've we've yet to meet physically, but we met on one of these wonderful online networking events. And I was really struck by your passion, and that's a word that's used a lot, but you really impress me with how you really do what you feel. You're out there spreading the message about how to get support. And as we were talking in our little pre-chat, there's loads of research going on at the moment, and you can find it's like where do you find the actual information I need? I can feel like the headlines are taking over, but you're all about getting to the bottom of what's right for us, aren't you? Because it there's no right or wrong, it's it's a very personal journey, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Absolutely, yes, definitely. That's uh and I think the thing I'd like to emphasize more than anything is menopause or perimenopause is going to be different for each each one of us. Um, and because you can't take your temper somebody's temperature and say, right, they're menopausal or perimenopausal, it's you know, it's not an exact science, really. And I think that's one of the challenges for for all of us, um, and probably for for you know um the medical people as well, that it's not it's not that simple. Um, blood tests used to be done quite a lot, but I think they're sort of being phased out because what's being recognised is there's no one level that you can say that's that's okay, that's not okay. It's just in very, very individual.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Right. Well, I say I love that you've pointed out right from the outset because we're not saying like there's no black and white answers, there's no no rule book, if only there was, if only there was. But you're going to be sharing, thank you very much, your top tips and insights and lessons learnt later on for how we can find the right support for us. Because I say that it's not a right or wrong, it's what works for us. But first, it it makes sense to actually delve into your own story, your own midlife metamorphosis, if you will. Because you know, the finding your why, why this means so much to you, why your personal experience has driven what you do today, really, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Definitely, yes. Um, I mean, mine's a bit of a saga. I could I could spend the whole time talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Let's go for it, let's let's delve in. No.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

No, I don't want to do that, I don't want to bore you. Um, it isn't very individual, but I think the things that I really wanted to talk about today, and the my reasons why, are really because my menopause has been very challenging. Um, and I've had to really sort of become my own an expert about myself, really, what's right for me. Um, many different doctors, I've you know, I've spoken to a number of different doctors, nurses, etc. Um, and I've had to sort of stick up for myself really. I've had to be quite clear what is right for me is not right for everybody else. Um, I mean, I'm I'm coming up for 62, so um we're talking now, probably a journey that's lasted about 15 years, um, and I'm not still still not quite through it. And I don't say that to scare people or make it dramatic, I just want people to get an idea that it's very, very individual. Um, and I really started with um, you know, about about I think, because this is the interesting thing as well, is it's only with hindsight that I can look back and think when things had started to change because it's quite subtle, and it's only over you know a period of time that you sort of start to think, ah, is you know, what is going on? And is it menopause or could this be menopause? And that was the case for me. So I think I was probably late 40s, um, and was just not really not living my best life. I think that's the best way to describe it. Um, was quite low in mood quite a lot of the time, and I actually was on antidepressants because I because I'd had some depression, but they just weren't working anymore. Um, so that was probably the first sign that I had. Um, and then more dramatically, um, I I started to have really heavy periods, which is not something that people are always aware of, um, because it seems almost the opposite to what we expect. We'd expect, I suppose, our periods to get less and less, but I was having really, really heavy periods.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I was, I literally just it went into one long bleed. It was just horrendous, horrendous.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

And it's terrifying, isn't it? It's it's scary, um, it's debilitating. I mean, I actually ended up with anemia. Um, and that's on top of feeling not right, yeah. Yes. Um, and you know, that then made it sort of something that I could really hold on to to say, look, this isn't right. Um, you know, this is actually causing anemia now. So, you know, I actually managed to get um because I was given the usual things that people that women get for for heavy periods, but that didn't work. Um, so that was really the beginning of recognising what was going on. Um, and then I started to read up a bit and I realized it wasn't just me that and obviously, you know, Kate, you've just explained you have the same, but it's not something we're often aware of, is it?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

We don't talk about it, we don't talk about it. And the thing is, it even boils down to those awful day-to-day every time you stand up. I mean, now I am thrilled to see these adverts on TV talking about gush moments because it is it's something not only are you feeling, oh my goodness, am I going mad? What is wrong with me? You can't, you know, you you're living in black, you're waddling around with about eight pads on because tampons don't do it anymore. There's no freedom, there's no freedom to talk about saying, you know, let's wear sexy underwear.

unknown 7:42

Really?

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Really, it's a joke, isn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_02 7:46

It is it's a constant, you just feel revolting because it don't feel you know, no matter how fabulous these pads are, and I know this is a completely different discussion, but I'm on a bit of a mini rant here, because you literally, you know, you need a bigger handbag because you're carrying all these things, even the subtle oh, oh god. People ask why I almost celebrated the end. You know, I didn't see it as an end of my womanhood. I it for me, it was an end of this bloody hell, quite literally. And I'm not apologizing for being grappling, it was absolutely god-awful, yeah, yeah, and you know, embarrassing, talk about embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

I mean, I I was at the time I couldn't leave the house, literally, because I just had to keep rushing to the toilet all the time. Yeah, so I then had to phone in sick and say to my male manager, you know, I can't come to work. And luckily he didn't push, so I didn't have to go into the detail. I would have done, but I didn't have to. But it's just embarrassing because I mean you feel like you're on your own. I don't think I told anybody about it. Um, but eventually I did actually have the Morena coil. So that that little episode came to an end, and that did actually work really well for me. And I know it doesn't work for everybody, but that bit of this, you know, saga that is my has been my menopause was you know, was controlled by the by taking by having that um coil. But the coil has led to other problems, you know. Yeah, uh it's not the be-all and end all, but it did stop that heavy bleeding. So, and then eventually my periods did actually stop completely. Hallelujah! And like you, no big celebration about you know coming to the end of womanhood. I'm still a woman, I but I don't have periods, and I'm you know, it's been a the word curse is uh, you know well, that's what our grandmas used to call it.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

You know, my grandma said, Oh, you've got the curse, you know, it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

But anyway, um, yeah, so but at each stage of the menopause for me, I have felt that um lip service was paid really about the symptoms. Um, and I didn't really ever feel like anyone took it terribly seriously. I had to keep going back, I had to find um eventually I found a woman's health expert in the surgery, my my GP surgery, and that was a sort of turning point, really, where I actually sat down and was able to say what was going on for me, um, and and was listened to. Um, and actually, I was very fortunate to be referred to um a menopause clinic. And I know that a lot of women listening will say, Well, what's that? There's not one in our area, and they're not that many. And even when you do get to uh get referred, I mean, I had to wait a year for a start, um, it wasn't brilliant, it was very much sticking to the sort of traditional model of what treatment should look like. Um, when I finally got my symptoms under control, bizarrely, I was then told that I had to reduce my HRT because I did actually go on to HRT, um, because um apparently it was it was at a level that was dangerous. Oh, I've heard that. Yeah. And yet there's n there was nothing to back that up. No. And I think this has been one of the challenges, and it probably is for a lot of women. And you know, quite often when there's new research, I sort of hold my head in horror because it often makes the headlines of papers, it's a big deal. But you know, we uh the research is very, very poor quite a lot of the time, the quality quality of it. Um, and it's uh you know, trying to make sure that when we believe you know, when doctors are given research, that it's they don't just jump on the bandwagon, that it's actually research that is not going to be overturned in a few months' time or a couple of years' time, because every time that we have these headlines, we're you know, uh the impact can be that the that doctors, um particularly GPs, because it they're not experts, then might actually change a woman's prescription due to that, and that's what's happened to me a couple of times. Yeah, I've really had to say, look, I I I you know, this is working for me, and uh when I reduce when it's reduced, it just doesn't work at all because it's this balancing act all the time. So you know, my story is extreme, but I do get that, but I think yeah, some of the lessons that I've learned from from my experience have been really the need to actually stick up for yourself, not just say, okay, right, that's you know, that that that's you know, that's okay, I can put up with it. No, it's not okay. If you're still experiencing symptoms, if it's making you ill, if it's making your mood low, or you're you know, you can't function at work, it's important that these things are are put right um to so that you can actually live your life, um your best life. So I think that's you know, it's that valuing yourself bit, isn't it, really, that sometimes women are not very good at. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

I'll say before we go into actual top tips, there's something that I'd like to say from my point of view as well, because I say I was very much, yes, I had the heavy bleeding as well, but also I was misdiagnosed in terms of I had had a history of depression, and it was seen as oh, that's come back, take your cetalopram, I can never pronounce it again, that'll help. And it's really a matter of obviously this episode, we're focusing on the the difficulties of finding the right mental health support, and it's all to me, it's all about trying to get the whole picture because we can go and we can think, right, I'm bleeding, and that seems like God, I just need this sorted out, and we can almost be so it's ourselves, we can be so focused on I need to be able to get to Sainsbury's without having to worry, I'm in the queue and I'm gonna bleed all over the floor. To I need to bring into the equation the fact that I'm not feeling right, that I'm feeling tearful, that I'm feeling oh, I'm forgetting everything. Oh my gosh, is it you know, is it early onset dementia? What is going on? And these are things that we can think, oh, I'll talk about that another time, rather than thinking putting it under the whole, and I don't like using the umbrella, but thinking are surely these are all connected, these are all things that we need to be talking about in one conversation.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yes, I totally agree, but it's having that understanding, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Because one of the things and having the conversations, it's it's that's why we're having this chat now. We're not going, oh, look at our problems, our problems are worse than that. No, no, that's not what we're doing, listening. Hopefully, a lot of you are going to be going, bloody hell, yes, no pun intended. Yeah, yeah. Or my mate had that, or oh my goodness, my sister had that, my daughter had that, my wife, my girlfriend. It's having having the conversations. And I totally agree with what you said about the research because when we had our first chat, there was one lot of research that came out that day. I think I've seen a couple more research, research in the headlines since, you know, and we actually made driven by you the conscious decision not to delve into this research during our conversation, but to actually speak from personal experience and how that has driven what you do now. Um, because who knows, by the time we come out in a couple of weeks' time after, you know, it could all change again. And if you say, if anything, yeah, misinformation and unclear information can be not dangerous, but it it can lead us down an unnecessary path, can't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yes, definitely. I mean, if you I mean, I'm just thinking back over the years of you know, um the history of HRT and how that has been, you know, you know, wasn't safe, was safe, wasn't, you know, how the hell are we supposed to navigate that when you know the messages keep changing? Um and it's still going on. It's still going on. It hasn't stopped. It really hasn't stopped. It's you know, it still goes on. And I oh, I just, you know, the one of the things I really wish for is that you know, that we they could we could stop this misinformation and this scaremongering that that seems to pervade uh the whole of you know women's health, really. Um it it's because you just how do you know? And you take, you know, of course you trust your doctor. Um, but having said that, you know, it's which doctor do you talk to because you get different messages from, you know, you might in the same surgery get different messages about what's what's right, what's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Um and as you said as well, it's finding out what groups are available because you didn't know initially that your local menopause group existed.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

No, no, that's right. Um, they certainly don't advertise it because they'd be overwhelmed. Um, and they you know they put very, very tight criteria on it. So you have to know what those criteria are to um actually know that you'll get referred.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

So it's like swatting for an exam or something, isn't it? Or going for a job interview.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Well, it feels like it, it does. I I don't really know any other area of health that's quite the same, really, where you have to but really, you know, go prepare to your doctor. Um, with I mean, that's you know, that that that is something that I will come to later, but you know, go prepare, don't just sort of go in and and think that they are going to give you the answers, because I think it's about doing your homework as well before you go, so that you do get the outcomes and knowing what your outcomes are, what outcomes you you're trying to achieve as well, because it's such a you know, such a wide area as well. Um, I mean, there are so many menopause symptoms. Um, I've I keep reading up on them and seeing different checklists. Um, and the one I've one I've seen um has 50 symptoms of the menopause. Yeah, and rising. Yeah, we keep, I mean, we we talk about the same ones over and over, but there are a lot of others, and it's getting that information out really that there are many others, and some women will have the others that don't get talked about, so not realize that it, you know, it could be perimenopause or menopause that they're experiencing. Um, because there are lots of other symptoms that just don't get talked about, so it's very much an education thing, really.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

I think absolutely, and one thing I feel really really strongly about as well is we are not midlife unlimited, me, you, we're not here to say we're victims of menopause. No, menopause is a biological fact that basically means that we are transitioning to the next phase of our lives. Yeah, but the thing that winds winds me up, if that's the right word, is the help is out there to make this easier, so that we shouldn't have to be, I use the word should there, but that there should not be the need for us to have to feel like we're tolerating, like we're coping. If the help is there, let us know about it so that we can make informed decisions. And I think that's where the disparity is, isn't it? It might be a postcode lottery, it might be that we feel we have to go and study to find out. Help us as women in midlife wanting to work with our bodies and our minds to get the best out of our bodies and minds because we've got so much to blink and give, and this is debilitating us. We are being limited not by our lack of self-worth and our lack of self-belief, by the fact that our bodies are throwing all this stuff at us. Now, you know, we the solutions that you know, everyone's solutions will be different, but the solutions are out there in in an increasing volume to the point that we can be bamboozled, and there are going to be so many people, people, women listening, but also the men in their lives thinking, I've got no idea anymore. I've got as you say, I've got no idea whether it's HRT, whether I should want to go down the the uh homeopathic route, whether I just grin and bear it. What do they know wonder? Then we think, hang on, we don't want to speak out, you know, we would be shy away. Oh, we're past it. We're no, we're not, we've just got so much going on.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah, yeah. And I think I think the thing that's new, because I mean, sometimes when you talk to older women, or when I talk to older women, they'll say, Well, we didn't make you know, we didn't make a fuss about it in our day.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

We just got on with it. Just got on with it.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

We just got on with it. Blah de blah blah. Um, one I would say, why do we need to just get on with it if we're not, you know, not not living our best lives. You know, I think that is a probably a generational difference where we, you know, speak for myself. I want to get the best I can out of life, you know. But that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

If the help and supports there, help us get it, help us get what is right for us. It's it shouldn't be a it's not a treasure hunt, it's not a you know, it's not like oh, may the best woman win. You know, she who dares gets the help she needs. No, let's let's have the conversations, especially, you know, we are now embarking on this longevity revolution. Let's make our next years as bloody brilliant as possible. We're willing to put the effort in, we're willing to say, yes, you know, we will do what we need to do, we'll find out, but let's make this information accessible to us.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yes, I I quite agree. And I think this isn't the the other difference, really, that you know, that that is there is that you know, women are living longer, men are living longer as well, but women are living even longer. And we we don't just retire at at 65 like women used to be. We can't! We can't, you know. We might well be grandparents, we might well still be working, we're certainly still wanting to go out and have fun and do what we want to do, have our hobbies. So there's all that going on. Uh, we may have older older parents around still. So there's a lot that we are still trying to do, isn't there, with our lives? And so we need the tools really to be able to do those things as as well as we can and to keep going for as long as we can and be as healthy as we as we can. So yeah, I quite agree. It's about giving us the tools really, uh giving us the information, which in this case are the tools quite often, and then we can make informed decisions about what we want to do, which will look different for each and every one of us because we're all different, aren't we? And some women will still want to just you know get on with it in their you know, in their terms. But um, you know, there are others of us who would rather get a bit of help. Uh and why not if it's there and it's available.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Well, say I'm all about choices, and that's what we're talking about, isn't it? We're we're talking about having the information so that you can make the choice that is right for you. Yes, and we may not get it right first time, it's all about trying different things. So I think if we if we could move into your top tips of advice, because that's gonna, we you know, we can carry on talking, but then we've weave our conversation around those. So what would be the first piece of advice for women listening and the chaps listening to think, hang on a minute, yeah, I can help my wife, girlfriend, sister with this?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah, well, I think the top tip for me has to be talking, because this is where it all starts, not just sitting quietly and thinking, oh, you know, I've got to deal with this. When we when we talk, by the way, by even in doing the talking, it often makes a lot of us feel better, talking, you know, expressing our the issues that are going on for us. And for me, one of the big things was having friends I could talk to about it, because although their journeys were different to mine, I knew then that there were some commonalities there. So, for example, you said something that nobody had said, nobody else had mentioned to me, and that was um you you said that um you wondered if it might be early onset dementia, and that was a massive thing for me because I've got a big family history of that. Yeah. When I started talking to people about it, then I kept hearing that same thing and thinking, well, we can't all have early onset dementia, it's not that common. So I started to recognise there was a pattern going on here. So by talking and finding your peer support, um, be that with friend people that you know, or joining a group of other women around the same sort of age, and maybe being the first one to say, you know, do you know what? This is what's going on for me. Uh, and raising that slightly still stigmatized conversation, which is our menopause or perimenopause, because yes, it is more common, but I still think that it can be difficult to get the conversation started. Once you do, don't believe me, women want to talk about it. I don't know if men do so much, but I think what we, you know, we could actually change that by us being more open about it. Um, and I have talked to men about what's going on with their with their partners in the past. So there are men who do want to talk. So, yeah, top tip, talk about it. You know, put your bravest face on and go out and talk to people about what's going on for you. Because what you'll find is that we're to some degree, we're all slightly in the same boat. Um, whether we're we've got there yet, whether we're further down the line and through it, you know, there will be stuff that that we can, you know, we can hear that will be be really beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

I love that. And what you just said as well, it's just sparked a couple of memories for me talking about you know men and having the conversations. A couple of times I and I kid you not, I've had conversations, I've broached subjects that were taboo potentially. And you know what the response has been? A fabulous, and b, I only I didn't think you'd want me to ask. I didn't think you'd want to talk about it. I didn't want to, I didn't want to interfere, not in a not in a nasty way, just as a it's such a personal thing. I thought I didn't want to embarrass you, or I didn't want to, and it's like, no, this is brilliant, let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

That that reaction is like almost he's like, well, I I I wanted to ask, I wanted to say something, but I didn't want to say that it's like grief, you know. I'm not comparing it to grief, but it's it's those conversations that we don't know what do we say the right thing, do we say the wrong thing?

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yes, yes, very much so. I think you're right, and I think there is a comparison to grief, quite honestly, because it's one these are some of the topics that are people are still really worried about saying the wrong thing. Yeah, and yet actually, if you say it in the right way, even if you can slightly get the words wrong, you know, if you show say it with care and you know, uh some sensitivity, quite often it doesn't matter that you've got maybe said slightly the wrong thing, it shows that you care, and that's what we all want, isn't it? People that care about us. So that is so true.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

That is so true. Because we can't we can't all be completely wonderfully eloquent, we can't all say the right thing all the time, but we can as you say we can make the connection and we can communicate and we can let other people know you're not alone, yeah, you're not alone, and that doesn't mean we necessarily understand what they're going through. No, no, it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't mean that we can actually relate, maybe, but the fact we've acknowledged it, we acknowledge it, we're like, God, you must be feeling yes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah, yes, that's very true. Because sometimes people say things and you think, Well, I don't actually agree with that at all. But if it's upsetting that person, you can really, yeah, and it's upsetting them enough to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

They're not just lying in bed, they're not just sitting in the car driving, thinking, Oh, this thing or my they've actually vocalized it. Yes, yeah, big step. It's a big step taking something from your head or your heart to actually letting it come out of your mouth.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yes, yes, it is, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

I love this, I love this. So, what's your next top tip then?

SPEAKER_00 28:00

These are absolutely well, I've sort of covered this a little bit, but I'm gonna just bring it in again about this whole thing about going for medical support. Um, and what I will say is that I've noticed great differences in the sort of um response from from GPs. Um, some have been really, really supportive, others have been quite, you know, um dismissive, really. So uh what my my second top tip would be that if you you know uh build up your courage and go and talk to a GP about your menopause or your symptoms, or you've been worried about something related to that, and you feel that you you haven't had the support or the information that you need, go and find another GP. You know, we it's quite easy these days because often we're at most surgeries, there are a number of doctors there. Um ask around your friends, find out who who is good on the reports. There might even be a woman's specialist there. Some GPs do have some practices now do have women's health specialists. So if there is one, find out. They won't necessarily tell you that. You know, when you phone when you phone up for an appointment, but ask, is there a women's health specialist? And if not, try and find out who might be a bit more, you know, might be a bit more supportive in your practice. So usually be someone who has a an interest in women's health. So that would be my second top tip because if you can find somebody who's got a bit more knowledge, they can maybe you know look at alternatives that maybe you haven't haven't been offered before. So that's I love that.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

And another thing that previous guests and I have talked about is about getting to know our symptoms. And I know you you've mentioned this before. You're almost again, it I'm gonna use the word should. It's something that we almost shouldn't need to be doing, but yeah, it's something that we're we're helping ourselves by doing it, whether it's keeping a diary of how you're feeling, particularly if you're feeling overwhelmed, anxious, you know, perhaps I mean, I would say, you know, things that you're telling yourself. Is there phrases that you're using like God, I'm useless, or this or that, or I don't like myself? Because this will help when it comes to finding the right support, you know, and it you know, in terms of periods as well, keeping track of where you're at with those. I know we're not physically not talking specifically about physical symptoms today, but definitely in terms of how you're feeling mentally, your physical symptoms can massively impact if you've just been bleeding for six weeks solidly. The chances are your mental health isn't going to be great for those because you're gonna feel like shit.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Absolutely, yes. But the two together, yeah. The two, you can't, you know, you can't get away from the fact that your physical health impacts your mental health, and vice versa. You know, I'm this is something I'm always going on about, anybody who knows me, you know, because if you're if you're feeling ill and you can't do anything, you can't maybe go to work, you can't do the things you enjoy, you're not going to be in the best of mental health, are you? On top of that, are you? Because it's just impacting on your life. So, yeah, I mean, I'm linking back to what you've just said, Kate. Um, there are, and again, I've mentioned this, but I want to really pull out symptom checkers, Google symptom checkers. There's a number out there. Um, that gives you then a format and things to look for. It's almost like looking for the symptoms, really. And then, you know, you can then keep that diary that you mentioned. So if you know that um, I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but you know, there is something that you might not have even have thought about. Well, it might be on that list for a itchy legs, itchy legs. Oh, it drives me insane. Dry eyes, you know. Yes, that's the other one.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

The first thing I do every morning is put eye drops in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Me too, me too. Um, so yeah, you know then that that is that is part of the menopause, and you can tick that box and then you can monitor that symptom just to see what's happening with it. So when you do do get that doctor's appointment, you go with that symptom checker. You know, you're prepared, you take it with you, and you're able to say, these are the things that I'm that I think are have been affected by the menopause. Um, I I would love to see a day that when you go to the to um uh um to a GP, just the same as they have a um on the screen, they have a checklist for them that that talks about um symptoms of of depression, that they have one for for women um as well, so that they can check through and see, because then you can start to see a pattern you see. This is the thing when you use these symptoms. I love that. I think you should start a campaign about it. Yeah. I think so. I've suddenly only thought of it today. But why have they not got that? Because there are so many symptoms, they're not going to remember them all, they're not gonna think of them. A bit sometimes they don't even know what some of them are. So that is a popular idea. Um, because sometimes I'm sure women go with a number of bits and bobs that nobody puts up, especially if it's an early menopause. Because I often too often sadly, too often I hear from younger women who say, Well, I went to the doctor because I thought I might be perimenopausal, and they're told they're too young. It can happen at any time. Yeah, it can happen at any time. So, yes, it they might not be the average average age, but it could happen before the age of 45. So, you know, to be turned away and told no, you can't possibly be perimenopausal without actually delving into that is is wrong.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

No, because again, that woman, something has driven her to take time out from her day-to-day routine because something is concerning her or troubling her or bothering her enough to pick up the phone to wait in line, no disrespect GPs, or to go onto the app or whatever their surgery does these days. Something has said to her, I need to take this time out of my crazy life to go and find out what this is all about.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

So if it's if it's bothered her enough to do that, then there's something there that the GP needs to be picking up on why. Yes, why why is she here? There's something that's brought her here today. She's not doing it for fun, she's not doing it because she's got nothing better to do.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

You know, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

She's had to cancel, yeah. She's she's had to delay this and m move this and do this and do that, and she's not even had a wee for two hours, you know, to get here to do this.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Yeah, yeah, to wait on you know, wait on the phone for half an hour or however long it is, 45 minutes. So yeah, yeah, we you know, none of us are gonna do that just for for nothing. It's um there's there's something going on, and it might not be it might not be menopause, but please at least give us a chance. Look into it. Yeah, yeah, look at it. Absolutely. I could have come up with many more, but I think those are the big ones, really.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Well, say we're gonna be sharing your contact details in a bit, and obviously, all your details are in the show notes for our episode, and you have your guest profile on the Midlife Unlimited podcast website. But before we share your contact details, you know, you know what's coming up, don't you? The same that all of my fabulous guests are asked, whether they're male or female, even my recent male guests. So if you're ready, what is your midlife anthem?

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Well, I don't think it'll be unusual, but it's got to be Chaka Khan, I'm every woman. I just love that song. You know, that's the song that will get me on the dance floor. Not that you hear it much these days, but if I if I I would have to be up for that one, and it's a song that sometimes is going around in my mind when I'm having one of those moments.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

I think, yeah. I'm every woman. It's all in me.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Obviously, no it.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Oh, yeah, I won't go any further. I won't go any further. Oh, I love that, I love that. There's a musical Alexandra Burke is playing her. I've yet to see it, but I must I must get it. Yeah, I must get we should have a midlife unlimited. Yeah, we should all go and see. I don't know if it's called Shucka Come on, but I remember hearing Alexandra Burke being interviewed recently about it. Anyway, I digress. I digress as I always do, as I always do. That's not my mantra, I digress. But I love to know. Question two, what is your midlife mantra?

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Come on, girl, you can do it. Oh you know, that's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Keep on keeping on, isn't it? No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

I love that sort of thing. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

See, I flog it at you and you came at it. Well, the last question, uh, which some people find tricky, some people give one-word answers. I'm looking forward to hearing yours. What is the title of your autobiography?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

I struggled with this and I asked a few people, but I came up with in the end something not nobody mentioned at all. It would be a life in gardens.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Oh I guess you are a keen gardener then.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Just a little bit, yes. And the more I thought about it, the more this is right, absolutely right. Because at times of pressure, at times of adversity, uh, you'll find me in the garden. That's my go-to place, or a garden. It might not always be mine, I might be doing somebody else's, but you know, because sometimes I do do uh professional gardening. Oh wow. Yes, you'll find me in the garden, or I'll be going visiting a garden.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

What is it about what is it about the power of gardening?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Oh, it's I can just totally lose myself. I mean, I'll go out and think I'm just gonna go and do, I don't know, print prune that rose. Um, two hours later, I've pruned that rose, I've pruned you know, another five roses, I've hacked something back, I've you know, I've cleared a whole space, I get totally lost, I lose time in gardens. Um, many an hour has been spent in gardens when it's supposed to have been 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

But also, you're you're completely present in the moment as well, aren't you? I mean, it is literally mindfulness in action because you're focusing completely on this task, and it's you know, mother nature just being out in mother nature as well. Oh, I love that, I love that. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go and poke around my garden when I finish recording this with you. I've I've been loving all the spring bulbs, and now it's like all the blossom on the tree. Our second spring as well. Our second spring, we're blossoming, we're blossoming. And for all those listeners, I'm going for a little segue here. All the listeners that are blossoming and ready to celebrate their second spring. How can they connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Well, um, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, Liz Morn, it's M-A-U-G-H-N. I've got a unique name, some quite easy to find on LinkedIn. I have a website which is www.mpowermht.co.uk.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Excellent. And listeners, I'd love your feedback on today's episode. So much information, so many golden nuggets. So it'd be fabulous if you could leave a review or subscribe as well, and you can email and text me. Um, come and join the Midlife Unlimited podcast Facebook group. The links are there, and there's links to the website where you can get details of how to work with me one-to-one and of more my award-winning all-in-one coaching program for fabulous women like you listeners. So, thank you for joining me, Liz. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for listening. I look forward to tuning in next week because don't forget Midlife Unlimited has a new episode every Thursday available wherever you listen to your podcasts. So here's to being fabulous and flourishing together and living midlife unlimited. Thanks, Liz. It's been brilliant. Bye. Bye.