Episode #008 How to not just Be Visible - but Feel Visible as a Midlife Woman with Guest Sapna Pieroux

Again and again the Midlife women Kate Porter coaches tell her they are feeling invisible, unseen…insignificant even. The result? This can cause us to feel stagnant and unfulfilled… when we want to feel visible. 

But this quandary runs deeper than merely stepping out of the shadows, whether that’s on social media or at in-person events.  

It’s not just simply about being visible. 

As Midlife women we want to be seen as us, free from having to wear a mask and pretending to be perfect. 

It’s time to rip off that mask and celebrate our perfect imperfection – and become visible in a way that aligns with our values, our wants, our needs. To be visible on our terms. Our way. 

To feel visible as the real and rather fabulous Midlife woman we are.

In this episode, Kate and her guest Sapna Pieroux reveal insights, inspiration and their own experiences surrounding visibility and both personal and brand image as well as top tips on how to let our Midlife brilliance and wisdom shine through.

From her breast cancer journey to her viral “This Little Girl is Me” post, Sapna shares with Kate how her approach to visibility has metamorphosised. 

And she talks Kate through her six pillars of visibility and how we can use these to overcome our Inner Critic and fear of judgement and become visible in a way that not just works for us – but feels right to us. 

Connect with Sapna here

Check your Visibility Score and get a FREE copy of Let’s Get Visible! https://letsgetvisiblequiz.com/

 https://www.linkedin.com/in/sapnapieroux/

https://www.innervisions-id.com/

 https://www.linkedin.com/in/sapnapieroux/

You can find out more about Smart Works by visiting their website here

https://smartworks.org.uk/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:13

Hello and welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm Kate Porter, the Midlife Metamorphosis Coach, and I know what it feels like to feel stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in the mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know you are not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and put up with it. You don't have to play it safe. Midlife Unlimited is all about ripping off that mask and telling it like it really is with raw and real conversations, smashing stereotypes, busting myths and misbehaving. because our second spring is our time to shine our way. So welcome to today's episode and happy new year 2025. How did that happen? Now again and again I hear from the wonderful women I work with that they feel invisible, unseen, that they feel insignificant and this can lead us to feel stagnant, and unfulfilled and we want to feel visible. So I'm delighted to be joined today to kickstart 2025 by Satna Piru, the award-winning personal and business brand consultant, author of Let's Get Visible and speaker. And we're going to be talking and getting raw and real about how to not just be visible, but to feel visible. visible. So hello Satna and Happy New Year. Happy New Year, Kate. I'm honoured to be your first guest of the year. Oh, it's my pleasure, my pleasure. Now, I don't do New Year resolutions and I think you're with me on that. And I had a great chat with Carrie Frost in the last episode because New Year resolutions are all about shoulds. And I do New Year me solutions. And I think now when we had a chat before, the start of a new year can often mean as midlife women, we're reassessing our image, our brand, our personal brand. And I think the word invisible can come up. And I know this is something that you work a lot with, Sapna. So I'm delighted for you to be sharing your wisdom today.

SPEAKER_00: 2:52

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I work with a lot of women predominantly. I do work with men as well. But it's women who tend to come to me and they're just tired of feeling, you know, kind of, they've been working for so long, they've got all this expertise, they've got all this knowledge and experience. And you know, it's just, it's noisy out there. So how do you get seen? Because if you're feeling that, you know, we scroll past, you know, we scroll the height of Mount Everest every 20 days. I mean, that's an insane stat. So it's really hard to show up and stand out. And how do you do that amongst this, what I call an information tsunami? So that's a big part of what I do. And I know you were talking about, you know, Gen X and, you know, sort of feeling that they, they were the invisible generation being

SPEAKER_01: 3:41

labelled the invisible generation but you had a very interesting take on that and I love that because I just hadn't thought of it you say no it's not just Gen X

SPEAKER_00: 3:51

it's No, I mean, I think all women, middle-aged women get to a stage where they start to feel less visible. You know, you're just not as noticed. And for some people, that's a relief. But for others who want to make an impact, that's not a relief. And you're kind of like, I'm still here and I'm still doing stuff and I'm still relevant and I'm still, you know, making a difference. So I don't think it's a Gen X thing. I think what's different about Gen X is that we're kind of fighting against that. And we're kind of going, no, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going into old age or sliding into old age and kind of getting out of the way. I'm actually still here and still relevant. So that's been the main change around the visibility thing, because it used to just be kind of young people. But now people are refusing to hide away as they get older.

SPEAKER_01: 4:40

And it is such a quandary situation, isn't it? Because while we want to be visible, both in terms of our businesses and in terms, like you said, of us. We want to step out of the shadows. And that's what I'm all about, just turning up and shining in our perfect imperfection. But it's difficult. And we can be seen to be smashing visibility in terms of our brand, but we can still feel invisible as us, the woman. And I think when we were chatting before, it harks back a lot to us being intrinsically hedonistic, but growing up in the 90s as well, where we weren't constantly on camera. No. We could be ourselves.

SPEAKER_00: 5:30

Yeah, I think we were... I wouldn't say we're the most creative generation, but I think there's a certain element of creativity that's been lost since the 90s and since we were the first, the last generation to not grow up on camera. So that meant that, yes, we were more hedonistic. We, you know, made all the mistakes. We could make the bad fashion mistakes and the bad hair mistakes and, you know, snog the wrong boys or girls and, you know, just kind of, you know, be sick behind the bushes at a party and Nobody knew. There wasn't someone there pointing a camera phone at us for all the mistakes we were making. And nowadays, I think, I feel quite sorry for my kids' generation, actually, that everything they do is documented. But they've also kind of grown up digitally and they're much more natural in front of a camera and much more at ease with that. And so I think it's quite difficult for a lot of midlife women to kind of feel natural in front of the camera and having to document, having to be more visible as there's just so much proliferation of online businesses does become harder for women of a certain age or people of a certain age, just because it wasn't the way that we were brought up and we were allowed to make our mistakes without being recorded forevermore. But now that's the risk. It's so true. It holds us back.

SPEAKER_01: 6:50

Yeah, it's that whole putting ourselves out there, isn't it? And that feeling of there's sharing and there's oversharing. And we'll touch on that in a bit because it is a very fine line. And I know the word authentic, sadly, is massively overused now to the point that I think it gives us both the ick. But it is making yourself visible so you feel visible in a way that aligns with your values, in a way that fits with you. So I'm really excited because I know you're going to be sharing your six pillars of visibility later on. But first, I'm going to dig a bit deeper into your story, if you don't mind, because I think it's fair to say it's kind of a melting pot of inner critic, imposter syndrome, fear of judgment. So when you came to launch Let's Get Visible, How did you feel about putting yourself out there?

SPEAKER_00: 7:53

Well, yeah, that was kind of a pivotal moment for me, was writing the book. Until then, you know, I'd spent 20 years in corporate, so I was always like a cog in a big machine. And then I started my business. And like a lot of creatives, like a lot of designers, I was a designer. I'm a brand consultant. I just wanted my work to speak for itself. You know, I just thought my work is so wonderful and I do such great things for my clients. Won't that just speak for itself? By the way, your work doesn't speak for itself. You have to. You've got the voice, not your work. But I found that out later. I was writing the book and. You know, the irony is that it's called Let's Get Visible, but I was terrified of putting my head above the parapet. I'd also been to my publisher, Lucy McCarra, has a book launch for a book. Book of One's Own, which is a book calling women to write their business books and have their voices heard. And it really inspired me. And I thought, right, I'm going to write my business book. Because in that talk, in her book launch, she talks about the fact that men's business books get taken more seriously. They sell for higher prices. They get reviewed better. And all the imposter syndrome was coming up for me because I was like, well, are people going to like my book? And if they don't like my book, are they going to judge me harshly? Is it going to reflect back? on me is it you know are they going to be prejudiced because I'm clearly I've got a foreign name and a female name so I came up to the entirely logical conclusion that I should put a white man's name on the front cover because that way my book would do better it would get it would take it would take them more seriously and Lucy just went oh don't be so silly woman you know how are you ever going to be a key person of influence if you don't put your name on the cover and And she was, she's always right. Lucy's always right. But, but yeah, I mean, it was, it was, it was that much. I was so scared of getting visible that I didn't even want to put my name on a book that had 25 years of my experience in it. So yeah, it was, it was bad. But then my social media lady said, you know, the book actually went on to win a business book award and it was completely validated by external judges. My business blew up overnight and, that year um and you know my my my social media lady who said to me well you do realize that you know now that you've written a book called let's go visible you're going to have to get visible and I was like oh god yeah I hadn't thought that

SPEAKER_01: 10:22

but there was a whole thing that came with yeah it wasn't it I mean was it 2020 it was yeah yeah you couldn't have foreseen the things that were coming for you oh

SPEAKER_00: 10:34

I created the covid you know kind of uh No, no, I didn't. I really didn't. But yeah, no, the book, it came out in January 2020 and was going on about getting invisible. And then everybody went and got invisible because we all got locked down and all the events cancelled and, you know, talks that I was doing that had been booked to do suddenly went online, all were cancelled altogether. So, yeah, the timing could have been better. In

SPEAKER_01: 11:01

terms of reimagining, yes. But then obviously... You were diagnosed with cancer as well in the months that were to come after that. Oh, no, it was a couple of years. Oh, was it a couple of years? Oh, my mistake. So how did that affect in terms of making yourself visible or keeping yourself visible? Well, yeah. Sorry, what were you going to say? No, I say, did you step back? Or I know you shifted maybe from LinkedIn more to... Facebook and we're very raw there, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 11:39

Yeah, yeah. So the business did really well in 2020 and 2021. I was going out then with the message saying that, you know, with your brand, Jeff Bezos says that your brand is what people are saying about you when you're not in the room. And right then in lockdown, nobody was in the room. So it was a really good story to tell about why your brand and your branding should be representing you. So the business did really, really well, 2020, 2021. And then 2022, I started to feel not right. And I started to lose my focus lose my mojo um looking back and connecting the dots I think it was perimenopause as well um and then I kept saying I can't put a finger on it I can't put my finger on it and then when I did put my finger on it I felt something and um And then I kind of went to the doctors and, yeah, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. But it was early stage. I'd caught it really, really early. The irony was that I'd actually got sent a mammogram letter in lockdown. And I thought, I'm not going to go to the hospital. I might get COVID. So, you know, at that point, people were dying of COVID. So... And we had no history of cancer in our family at all. So I was the first, I always say always the innovator in my family and the leader, but I was actually the first person to get breast cancer. And so, yeah, I came off LinkedIn. I stopped promoting my business. I stopped because suddenly I had bigger issues and bigger battles to fight. My children were obviously terrified. My husband was terrified, but trying to be brave. The way that I coped with it was to write about it, to document it. And the way that I did that was on Facebook, because I had a lot of friends and relatives and family who were, you know, kind of interested and invested in the fact I did go, I put a LinkedIn message out, I put a video out telling people that I got breast cancer everywhere, pretty much LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. And the reason for that was not only to tell people my situation but also to raise awareness to get people to check their moves and their boobs because it happens to guys as well and then it became about a fundraising thing as well as an awareness thing because I was lying in bed after my mastectomy and Facebook popped up one of those hey it's nearly your birthday and fancy doing a fundraiser and I thought well I've got nothing else to do I'm lying in bed in a hospital at the moment so I put it out there and I called it my birthday boob because my husband was like what can I get you for your birthday this is a bit weird because I went into hospital four days, five days before my birthday so I was like well I'm getting a new boob isn't that what everyone wants and I did handle it with humour and I had the whole thing, the dark humor. I had to entertain as well as educate people about it. But I got connections from all over the world. Somebody even dedicated a book to me. They wrote a book about their breast cancer journey. They were inspired by me telling mine. And it's had knock-on effects of the connections that I've made. And I inadvertently grew my personal brand by talking about it, but I wanted to do something good out of something shitty. And so that was kind of the thing. And my best friend died of breast cancer when she was 38 after the doctor failed to diagnose her at the age of 36 and said that women her age don't get breast cancer. So I just wanted to make sure that everyone was aware and checking their boobs and staying safe. So yeah, that was, but it was not, you know, I did feel seen because it was something I kept myself visible for a purpose.

SPEAKER_02: 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:31

It's everybody's choice. You can shrink away when you've got cancer and that's a completely valid choice. But for me, I just wanted to make sure it didn't happen to others or if they did, they could catch it early.

SPEAKER_01: 15:40

But that's one of the many things I love about you because you used your voice. And as you said, you inspired others to actually, and that's what Midlife Unlimited is all about, have the conversations. And I hope you don't mind because there was another post of yours that I think actually went viral about, And again, it's you just having that conversation, putting the message out there. Do you know the post I'm referring

SPEAKER_00: 16:10

to? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was my This Little Girl Is Me post. And that just blew up on LinkedIn, on Instagram. It was a campaign that was run about three years ago. And people were telling the story of who they were when they were little and who they were now. And again, my social media manager said, I think you should write your story. And I was like, oh, right, OK. It wasn't really something that I was thinking about, but I wrote it. And it blew up. And it had like 2000, you know, kind of likes and loads of comments and several shares, you know, about 20, 22 shares or something. And the, and the actual, um, organizers of the campaign picked it up and they ran with it. And then my friends were going, do you know, they're sharing your story on their channels as well. But it basically tells the story of me coming to the UK, um, at the age of two. And as an immigrant, I was born in Mauritius. My parents came over and they were NHS doctors. And I was growing up in slightly racist Northern Britain at the time in the 70s. And And then it talks about the fact that I just wanted to look like everyone else. You know, I kind of didn't want to look different because I was being made fun of and, you know, racist taunts and comments. And I just wanted to look like my blonde friends with their freckles and talk about sunning and fake tan, just like them. I just wanted to look like and have their freckles when the sun came out. And I kind of told this story and, you know, and it seemed to strike a chord with a lot of people. And then I kind of talk about the fact that when I came down to London, I'm sort of fast forwarding the story, but I came down to London and I suddenly realized the diversity of people and how different everyone was and how accepting everyone was. And obviously this was like 20 years later, but yeah. it was just such a contrast. And I suddenly realized that it was okay to be different. And that's actually what I help people do. In fact, it's actually okay, not only okay to be different, but okay to stand out and to celebrate your difference and to be confident about looking different. And I love my brown skin now. And I love the fact that I don't have to wear tights in the winter, for example. But I related it back to what I do now, which is help people to stand out. And that's how we get noticed and that's how we get seen and how we get visible. It's about celebrating our differences and our diversity.

SPEAKER_01: 18:34

I love that. And I love the way you've adapted, obviously, your Let's Get Visible ethos now to your personal branding course that you're just launching. And you've kindly said you're going to share your six pillars of visibility and how... Those can not only be adapted to business visibility, but as you say, to us women wanting to feel visible. So would you talk me through them?

SPEAKER_00: 19:05

Yeah, just very briefly. Obviously, there's a whole book of it. So it works. So it works for businesses. I originally developed it. for business brands and for building business brands and this is in the book that won the award and then this last year when I came back out of my cancer bubble and we'd had quite a few things going on personally so I ended up taking almost two years out of my business I found that women were coming to me saying look I don't need a rebrand for my business I don't need new logos colors and fonts what I really want is help with my personal brand and And then again, the imposter syndrome, because I'm like, well, why are you coming to me? Why are you talking to me? I build business brands, not personal brands. They said, no, you've built your personal brand to a position of, you know, real clarity and people really understand what you do and you're recognizable wherever you show up and blah, blah, blah. And this is what they wanted from me. So I kind of resisted it for a while. And I thought, oh, you know, and I was like, I have to come up with a new methodology now. And my business coach went, no, why don't you use vision? Oh, gosh, you're quite good aren't you um so so i looked at the vision process and i was like oh that works for people as well because the tenets of building a brand whether it's a personal brand or a business brand are the same um and and actually for entrepreneurial brands it's you know you are the brand aren't you you are the business you are the brand so that should work um and so v starts so it's five six steps v-i-s-i-o-n V is about visualize where you kind of look at the big picture. And I ask people to sort of think about their five aspirational brands. So think about an aspirational female brand or a female. you know, an aspirational personal brand, but you think of five, have you got an aspirational brand? I mean, I use the example of Michelle Obama for me. I've got a proper girl crush on her, but also love like what she stands for. And we should, we can all be a bit more Michelle Obama, can't we? So I love because she's so humane and down to earth. She's got a great sense of humor. She's graceful. She's elegant. She's dignified. There's just so much about her to kind of aspire to be like, what about you?

SPEAKER_01: 21:12

Mine is Davina. Just has to be. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. We share our whole midlife mission. It is our time to shine. And yeah, I think we can all be a bit more Divina.

SPEAKER_00: 21:26

Absolutely. So I get my clients to look at that and then I get them to look at those five brands and see what's really resonating for them. Then we look at their vision that, you know, what do they want to be known for? How do they want to be remembered? What's their legacy piece? You know, what's their, how they want to be thought of in years to come. And then we look at the ideal customer and who are these people that are going to want to work with you, that are going to be your tribe, that are going to be your followers, that, you know, are going to absolutely resonate with everything you're putting out there and why are they going to recommend you and why are they going to talk about you to their family and friends and recommend you so all of that is the visualize what's the big picture then we look at eye for inner brand where we look at your brand values so your personal brand values and then we develop your personal brand voice and personality which yes we've all got our personality and our voices but it's about curating it to well what's the professional personality version of Kate or Sapna or whatever what do they sound like because we can all be different people with our friends with our with our partners with our children um and we have lots of different voices and personas so it's about getting clarity on what's that persona that's going to show up to develop your personal uh personal brand for business um So yeah, so that's I. And then we look at S for stand out. So it's like, how are we going to help you stand out in your industry? And that's about putting a plan around things like PR or winning awards or writing a book or starting a podcast or establishing your authority, speaking gigs, establishing your authority. So we work on that as well. So what are the aims that you would want? Now, I'm not going to help you do all those things, obviously. But what I'm helping you do is get clarity so that you're not doing all the things that you're doing. and actually just laser focus on the things that are going to get you to your goal. And then we look at eye for image. So eye for image is all about, you know, you've got your iconic red lippy and the green and the leopard print. I've got my iconic red. And it doesn't have to be always a look, but it's to be intentional about the look that you do show up with and realize that that impacts on your personal brand. Some people like you and I are really aware of the power of that, but other people are not as aware of it. But it's not just eye. about how you show up it's about what's in your zoom room it's about where are you having meetings with clients if you're having them in real life where are you taking them i hope you're not trying to sign that deal in mcdonald's you know you need to be taken to a nice hotel lounge maybe and frame it's the framing that you put around your business it's almost like yeah

SPEAKER_01: 24:02

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 24:02

It is, it is. And it's all, yeah, I mean, the Zoom room is your stage really for a lot of the time that you're, you know, you're in meetings. But it's also how you show up on LinkedIn or on your preferred social media platforms. What does that look like? like as well. So that's I for image. Then we look at O for output, which is basically writing all of that stuff goes into your personal brand guidelines, which help you then because it becomes your North Star for everything you're trying to achieve. And then N for nurture is about the fact that personal brands aren't built overnight. So there needs to be an ongoing plan. And that's what I help them develop and make sure and give them accountability as they as they build their brand.

SPEAKER_01: 24:41

I love that because the phrase that it's used a lot, but not quite as much as authentic. But that consistently, I can't say it. I'll start again. Consistently persistent, consistent. Just keep going, but in a way that, as you said, aligns with your values. Because otherwise, you'll give yourself the ick. Now, you might give yourself the ick a bit. And I know I feel that sometimes. You think, oh, do I need to put more stuff out there on social media? Oh, I'm boring myself. But as you said before, you almost need to bore yourself because the message, as long as the message is clear and targeted... by putting out the message again and again we become the lighthouse really don't we we become

SPEAKER_00: 25:29

well yeah I mean I think it I think it's like 27 times people have got to sort of hear your message over and over again before they take action so you tell them you tell them you tell them again you're bored of telling them but they only see about five percent of what you put out there um and you know it's like I talk about so I always wear red when I'm on duty I red is my kind of uniform um and and that's very intentional because when when you know kind of podcasts go out or, you know, if I'm at a networking event or if I'm photographed at something, that red pops on social media.

UNKNOWN: 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:04

And I'm instantly identified. People look for me in networking rooms now and they go, I was looking for the red dress. I knew it was you. They kind of make a beeline. I get the same. Yeah, exactly. And so it helps you be identified. It helps you stand out. And isn't that what the whole point of it being visible and being seen and feeling visible? Absolutely. And people, even when I'm not in the room, the other day, somebody was like, I didn't go to a network event. She was like, I was looking for the red dress. There was like, there's an absence of me. So I'm still being thought of. That was, I thought,

SPEAKER_01: 26:33

incredible. Yeah. No, that is fabulous. And then you say that goes back to what Jeff says about what people say about you when you're not in the room and they almost thought you should be in the room or you were in the

SPEAKER_00: 26:42

room. Yeah. And they missed me for not being in the room because they couldn't see the red dress. They were like, oh, I thought you'd be. I was looking for a red dress. So that was kind of quite sweet. But, you know, it bores me. Because I wear lots of other colours as well. So I'm like, God, does everyone just think I've only got red in my wardrobe? No, when I'm off duty, and it's almost like my Wonder Woman t-shirts that I wear when I'm doing my delivery. I was going to mention your t-shirts. Yeah, because how did they come about? Well, they came about in lockdown because I was, you know, kind of, I had all the posh red dresses because I was doing all the stage talks for my book.

UNKNOWN: 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:15

And I bought a load of red dresses because I only had one red dress when I started all of this up. And a man I got told off by my friend who's a stylist saying, you should have worn red for that book talk. And I'd worn black and white. So I was like, God, I need to go and buy more red dresses. And then we got locked down. I was like, I'm not wearing posh red dresses while I'm feeding my kids 15 billion meals and homeschooling them and then hopping on to Zoom for a quick 45 minute talk. So I thought, how can I bring Red into the Zoom room? And I had a Wonder Woman t-shirt from one of my boys' superhero party. So I pulled that on instead. I thought, well, that'll do. And everybody loved it. And they were like, oh, because they called me Super Saps. A lot of my clients call me Super Saps because I can rebrand businesses in a day and name businesses in under two hours. So I do hard things very fast. So then it got to a stage where it was like, well, I can't just have one Wonder Woman t-shirt. I've ended up getting a whole range of the different superhero t-shirts, Supergirl, Superwoman. the Incredibles, the Flash. So I've got one for every day of the week and I use them for client delivery just because it gets me in the zone. It's a bit like Beyonce and Sasha Fierce. You know, she's got this alter ego that she changes into for delivery and I do the same. Yeah, Beyonce's got, yeah. Because Beyonce is actually quite introvert herself. But when she turns into Sasha Fierce, she's this powerful woman. And so it's a little bit of that. I was like, right, I'm now in the zone where I'm super powering up my client's delivery. And then when that comes off, I'm on the school run or, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01: 28:45

I love that because So often I speak to women who feel like they're wearing or that they have to wear this mask of pretending they're someone they're not, which is exhausting. But the way you've done it and Beyonce, it's not wearing a mask. It's just finding that extra something just to give yourself that bit of oomph. Yeah. Yeah, that va-va-voom, but you're not pretending or you're not, you don't feel that you're having to pretend to be someone you're not. You're still, and this, we're going to do a little recap because you've given so much fabulous information. And you know me, I like to pull it in together into a little three of your top tips. But the first one, from what you said, it is make sure everything you do aligns with your values because then you will feel visible as you, I think. Have I summarized the first point well?

SPEAKER_00: 29:42

Yeah. It's about getting to know yourself, actually not doing anything that makes you feel icky and what you feel comfortable in. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:50

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:20

stand for you know what you want to achieve and you just focus on that so yeah that's what I help people do

SPEAKER_01: 30:26

and that I love a segue that leads perfectly in to the second point that I've taken away from our chat today which is setting boundaries of what you are comfortable sharing and sticking to them so knowing what you're happy to put out there and as you said you know you might get braver and a little sneak behind the curtains can be quite tantalizing

SPEAKER_00: 30:52

yeah I mean I think people want to see want to know a bit more about you it's not transactional it's not you know everything we do businesses are is a relational thing it's not just you pay me this money and you get this thing and especially as a as an entrepreneur you're you are your business so um but if you don't want to show your children on social media then you don't have to show your children on social media you can still sort of take the odd selfie or group shot or a you know, if you go out and about and think, you know, LinkedIn or any social media loves your face. And I know for a lot of middle-aged women or midlife women, they feel a bit uncomfortable because they feel they're aging or whatever. But, you know, my husband always says, you look so much better when you smile, darling. So, you know, just people love a smile on a photo and it helps people connect with you as a human being and they get to know you a little bit better as well.

SPEAKER_01: 31:43

And I find, I mean, the way I do, I'm very much a one take, no edit kind of girl when it comes to Midlife Unlimited, when it comes to doing lives or reels. Because again, I think that gives a real taste of who you are. And if you do make a little blooper, it shows you're human when it's so polished. I sometimes... feel slightly alienated from the person that's putting it out there I

SPEAKER_00: 32:07

know and as a recovering perfectionist I completely get that completely you know it kind of it can stop you can't you like trying trying to put something out that's so perfect

SPEAKER_01: 32:17

it actually holds you

SPEAKER_00: 32:18

back

SPEAKER_01: 32:18

no absolutely I think you mentioned a post or a video that you were trying to do once and it was like you just kept thinking no that wasn't right I need to redo it I need to

SPEAKER_00: 32:27

redo it at the first start of my visibility journey when my when my social media manager said to me you know you've got to start getting visible now she said just say she pointed her camera phone at me and she went just say merry christmas and a happy year to all our followers and i fluffed that about eight times because the camera was pointed at me and i was just like uh you know rabbit in a headlight so you know it's it's about i mean start small start with the things that you feel comfortable with and then kind of build up to that and but it's that consistent action that will get you um I think the worst thing is people just get overwhelmed and then they don't do anything and then they're completely invisible. So just little baby steps and within your comfort zone, just a little bit outside your

SPEAKER_01: 33:08

comfort zone, maybe. You've done it again. You've perfectly segued into the third point. I have, it's almost. I've got goosebumps. Personal brands aren't built overnight, are they, Satna?

SPEAKER_00: 33:22

No, absolutely. And this is, yeah, you can't just... Yes, I know I did the, this little girl is me thing went viral, but it didn't establish my personal brand on its own. People get to know, like, and trust you over time. And so, you know, hiding behind your work isn't going to help on that front. People aren't going to get to know the person behind. So you're the voice of your work. Your voice, your work doesn't have a voice and you need to be able to share how brilliant you are and not feel, Icky about that because nobody else is going to do it for you I

SPEAKER_01: 33:57

love that

SPEAKER_00: 33:58

I'm

SPEAKER_01: 33:58

going to ask you to share some more now no now on each episode I ask the three same questions to the fabulous women that join me so it's your turn now so my first question to you um What is your midlife anthem? The song or piece of music that when you hear it, you think, yes, doesn't have to be completely upbeat, but just a song that really gets you. Gets you

SPEAKER_00: 34:28

fired up. Do you know what? I just love it. And I sing it all the time. And it's not even because I've lived that experience. But it's Dua Lipa, Don't Start Now. And it's a song about this woman who's been dumped by her boyfriend. And she is out there doing her own thing. And she's like, don't even, don't even like. And it's just about the haters, really. For me, it's not about a boyfriend who's done me wrong. But it's about anybody who didn't believe me. in me at the time, don't even, don't even like, you know, and she said, there's a line in there. If you want to believe that any, anything can stop me. And I just think that that's a brilliant, really empowering line. It just, I just sort of imagine her bursting through these curtains and like feeling unstoppable. So I just, it just feels really empowering. And that

SPEAKER_01: 35:15

sums up Midlife Unlimited as well. Now this, I'm now very excited to hear the second answer. What is your midlife mantra?

SPEAKER_00: 35:26

Well, so anyone who knows me, my friends, they know me as the yes girl. And that's not just because I'm a people pleaser. It's not that. It's about the fact that I say yes to stuff when other people might say no, because my whole thing is like, look, nothing bad will happen if you don't If you say no, you can always say no. It's always a choice. And that's a whole sentence, by the way. No is a whole sentence. You don't have to justify it. But if you say yes, that's where the change happens. So if you're thinking of going to an event or you've been invited to a party or you've been invited to speak at something and your natural tendency might be to be like, I'm not sure, can I just say yes and then worry about it afterwards? I did a whole year of saying yes after my first marriage ended. And I realised that I'd spent so long I'm saying no, because I had a really strict dad and my then husband wasn't really very adventurous. And so we never went anywhere and did any of the sort of things that I wanted to do. So I spent a whole year inspired by the Yes Man book, saying yes to every single question that was asked of me and seeing where that took me. And in that time, I... went to five music festivals. I learned to ski. I learned to pole dance. I met so many new people, made new friends, got a new job, got a pay rise of 10 grand, met one of my really good friends who's still one of my best friends. And our boys have ended up becoming, like they were born and grew up together and they became best friends. And it's just been, if none of those things would have happened, if I hadn't said yes, I didn't apply for that job. So for me, it's just say yes. I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 37:07

Because it is, what's the worst that can happen? So I've got a feeling I might know the answer to this one then. The final question, what is the title of your autobiography? Well, I think it might have to be The Yes Girl. I think it might. I think it might. And I just love, thank you for sharing the story behind it. Now, this... reminds me of something that you've been mentioning recently, which is another example of something you've said yes to. And we've got to know each other quite well over the last months. And I know volunteering is something very close to your heart. And it's something that you've had a bit of a pivot in terms of what you've been doing before. And now your boys are getting older. So could you tell us a bit more? Share what you've been up to.

SPEAKER_00: 38:02

Yeah, well, I've always volunteered. I've always done something that's kind of, as my older son said, Mummy, you've always got to have a project on the go, haven't you? Oh, yeah, I like a

SPEAKER_01: 38:10

project.

SPEAKER_00: 38:11

Yeah, I like a project. So whilst the boys were little, it was, you know, sort of running playgroups and I was chair of the NCT for a while. And then as they grew up, I was on the PTFE and, you know, helping with fundraising activities and designing the yearbooks and stuff like that. Anyway, and then they've both gone to secondary school now. So my youngest one has gone to secondary school. No more school run. I feel really sad. Sad about that. But it has freed me up in terms of time. And now I can spread my wings a little bit. So I've been volunteering. I've started volunteering for a charity called Smart Works, which is a charity... to help women into work. So they may have, you know, kind of a state escaped an abusive marriage or a refugee or been homeless or whatever, but they come in and we organize them an interview outfit. We ask them what job they're going for and get them an appropriate interview outfit together. And then they also get a career coaching. interview coaching as well in that first appointment. And then when they get their job, they can come back and pick a capsule wardrobe so they can kind of get another five items to go with their original outfit so they can at least have a capsule wardrobe for the first month at work until they get their paycheck. So it's a fantastic organisation. And yeah, that's what I'm doing now. I absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_01: 39:30

It sounds absolutely brilliant. Now, obviously, the fabulous ladies listening, is there any way, well, A, I know they want to find out how to get in contact with you, but if they get in contact with you, or can you give us the links if they'd like to find out more about SmartWorks as well?

SPEAKER_00: 39:47

Yeah, yeah. Obviously, well, you can Google SmartWorks charity. It's two words, SmartWorks, as opposed to if you're trying to look for them on LinkedIn. But one of the things that we were talking about was that they always need handbags because they run out of handbags really quickly. So I just did a big collection of handbags and brought them over to them this week, actually, earlier this week. So if you're having a new year, clear out. And we're meeting up at networking events. Bring your handbags, and I'm happy to be your bag lady. Take them with you. You are a

SPEAKER_01: 40:18

delightful bag lady. So apart from handbags, how else can we get in contact with you?

SPEAKER_00: 40:26

Well, I mainly play on LinkedIn these days. That's kind of my stomping ground. I've kind of stopped doing for now. Anyway, I'm not really doing the other platforms because I'm just sort of focusing on LinkedIn and that's where my people are. So yeah, hit me up there and say that you... You heard me through Kate and I can send you a free PDF copy of Let's Get Visible as well if you say that you heard me on Kate's

SPEAKER_01: 40:52

podcast. That sounds fantastic. And is there a wait list for the next intake of your personal brand

SPEAKER_00: 41:00

course? Yeah, the personal brand courses will be completely, yeah, it's full for this cohort, but because we've already started, we're starting very soon. But yeah, keep connected with me and you'll get to know when the next one is and I'll get a wait list up there on my LinkedIn and you'll be able to join the wait list.

SPEAKER_01: 41:19

And I'll put any links as well on the show notes for this. I've loved our chat today. I really have. It's always delightful speaking to you. And you lovely ladies out there, I'd love to hear your feedback on today's episode. Did it resonate? So you know how you can contact me. Drop me an email. Kate at SecondSpringLifeCoaching.com. Or you can contact me via the podcast website, midlifeunlimitedpodcast.com, put my teeth in, or connect with me on LinkedIn as well, Kate Porter Second Spring. So Satna, a huge 2025 thank you for being my first guest of the year today. And thank you out there for listening in. Hope to join me for the next episode. And here's to being fabulous and flourishing together in 2025 and beyond. See you next time. Take care.

UNKNOWN: 42:22

Bye.