Episode #013 How to Stretch the Elastic as a Midlife Mum of Teens with Guest Jo Brianti

As Midlife mums, navigating the teenage years can be a potential minefield of change and all the emotions that this encompasses. We can feel like we’re losing control as our whole routine as we know undergoes upheaval.

It’s a real struggle not to lose sight of who you are both as a Mum and as you - the woman - at this pivotal time in our lives.

And all the while there’s that looming countdown to the whole Empty Nesting journey… and listen out for a forthcoming episode focusing on that.

So Kate is delighted to be joined by Jo Brianti for Episode #013 to take an open and honest look at how to stretch the elastic with our teens. As a Mum of twin teenage boys, Jo shares her experiences and insights of beginning to let go – and at the same time discovering the joys of being able to take back our time as our offspring explore their growing independence. 

From heartwarming tales of first parent-free school trips, to practical tips and advice for nurturing their independence, Jo shares with Kate her three lessons learned during these transformative years with her double trouble. 

And, as Mum to a now 23-year-old, Kate reminisces with Jo about the importance of embracing rather than resisting change and exploring empowering choices at this evolving time in both our kids’ and our lives.

Connect with Jo at

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jobrianti/

https://www.instagram.com/jobrianti/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:02

Hello and welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm Kate Porter, the midlife metamorphosis coach, and I know what it feels like to be stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in that mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know that you are not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and play it safe. Midlife Unlimited So welcome to today's episode. Now teenagers, so many of the mums I speak to are finding the teenage years a potential minefield of change. Feeling you're losing control, your whole routine as you know it is changing. Losing sight of who you are as a mum and all the while the looming knowledge that the countdown is on to that empty nest. The whole bird launching thing. And I've even written a free e-book, Your Empty Nest Epiphany, that I'll put the links in the show notes. So I'm delighted to welcome my guest today, Joe Brianti, GDPR and data protection specialist, to get raw and real talking about how to stretch the elastic, not on our waistbands, but with our teenagers. So welcome, Joe, to Midlife Unlimited. Hi, lovely to chat to you today, Kate. Now, Jo, with your business hat on, you manage change all the time. But the woman behind the business, you're a mum of teenage twin boys. So I'm guessing there's a lot of changes going on in your personal life too right now.

SPEAKER_00: 1:57

Yes, and... that's no different to life generally because life is all about changes isn't it but at the moment you know we've we've just come through GCSEs my boys did very well excellent and we are now in the sixth form so we are now on the countdown to them going off and I thought because they had been about wanting to do apprenticeships, staying at home, but all of a sudden we're talking going away from home to university. So some big changes and exciting changes for them. And also I think exciting changes for me.

SPEAKER_02: 2:43

Oh, absolutely. It takes me back. It takes me, I'm going to get all misty eyed while we're chatting because my boy has just graduated. But I loved the phrase and it's your phrase. I'm not going to try and take ownership for it. Stretching the elastic because we always, for my guests, I always have a pre-podcast chat because it's about getting to know each other so we can have a raw and real conversation. And you came up with that fabulous phrase, stretching the elastic. And I think it beautifully Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:38

From the moment they're born, your role as a parent is to prepare them to leave home or to become independent adults who can function in the world, in work, in social environments, holidays, you know, the basics of can I book a train ticket? Can I plan to get from my home to work on a bus, on a tube, you know, or train? or all of those things. And alongside that is things like, can I operate a washing machine? What's an iron? Can I feed myself? All of these things. And I know when we talked, we talked about lockdown. And one of the projects I set up in lockdown with my kids is that they had to go onto the internet. I gave them lots of different websites and they had to choose a recipe. each week one recipe each and they had to make that from scratch so we ordered the food on our supermarket delivery i was there to support them i helped them but they were in charge of cooking that meal and over that period of time they learned to cook pasta from scratch they cooked a range of casseroles they can use a slow cooker um you know they can pan fry some fish with chips or mash and sorts of different things when they leave home they're not going to be afraid of you know being given a set of saucepans and a wooden spoon they're going to be able to eat reasonably well um but even before lockdown even when they were in primary school We had a toaster. They learnt how to make toast and butter it and put some baked beans in the microwave so they could do beans on toast. So it's all about age-appropriate growth for them. And it makes my life easier because, you know, I can just put a message on the family WhatsApp and say, I'm not around this evening. I'm going to the gym. I do whatever. Somebody else is in charge of making dinner tonight. And... In my house, there are three men who can, and they are mini men. Well, they're taller than me, but, you know, they can go off and they can do something between them. They can figure out, is there something in the fridge that they can knock up a dinner? Or, you know, do they have to liaise with my husband and say, can you pick up something on the way and we'll cook?

SPEAKER_01: 6:18

It's

SPEAKER_00: 6:19

those kinds of things. It's making them ready. And I'm always there. I'm always that support in the background. But I don't feel it does them any justice to do everything for them. I allow them to fail. And I don't berate them if they don't get it right. Because they're not going to learn if I do everything for them if I don't allow them to fail. You know, fail is first attempt in learning.

SPEAKER_02: 6:50

No, that is so true. That is so true. And I come across it again and again, this fear of failure, almost as strong as the whole fear of judgment. But I'm completely with you because by failing, well, A, it's not a failure, but it means we're trying and it's missteps rather than mistakes. And there's always a result. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I like surprises as well. And before we go further, I'd like to delve a little into your backstory because it makes sense of everything you've been talking about. And I love that whole lockdown, not experiment, but yeah. And it was a lovely way of bonding as well, I think, at a really tough time for everyone. So I love the way you did that. But share a bit more of your backstory with listeners because I think they're going to be a bit surprised here. So what did you train

SPEAKER_00: 7:45

as, Jo? Chef. When I was a teenager, when I was the same age as my boys, I wanted to be Monica Galletti and Angela Hartnett. I wanted Michelin stars. I wanted my own place. And I left school at 16 and I trained to be a chef and life happens. And I discovered a a hip defect that meant that spending all those hours every day on my feet was getting really, really difficult. And I was working to make some extra money one evening in a restaurant and my knee went from underneath me and all of these plates that I was carrying, five at the time, flew in the air and landed on the floor around me and that was it. That was the end of my hospitality career. But food is still a really important thing in my world. And, you know, my husband and I joke that if ever we won the lottery, you know how some people talk about, well, buy a car, they'll buy a house, they'll have this, that. Rob and I will get the Michelin star restaurant list and we'll be booking a meal in each one of them with our lottery win long before we worry about the new car or the new house. And that's a joy. And, you know, food is wonderful. It, it, It nourishes, it's healthy, but it's also social. It's about fun. And I hope that I've passed on that love and that joy to my children through cooking together and through helping them to learn what is a life skill. We're not just talking here about Michelin star. We're talking about a life skill as well.

SPEAKER_02: 9:42

And I love the take you mentioned for Christmas and birthdays, the way you and your husband do gifts.

SPEAKER_00: 9:50

Yeah, we don't buy tat. I mean, I say we don't buy tat. We might buy each other a box of chocolates or something a bit silly that goes under the tree. But we pool all our money and we take something off the Michelin star list and we will book and we will go there. Or we will maybe not Michelin star every time, but we will go to those really lovely, lovely restaurants where you're spending quite a bit of money and you're having the experience and you're having the food and, you know, if you're lucky, you get to meet the most incredible chefs that are revered the world over. And it's, that is a joy. That is just, yeah, absolutely. I would rather spend that money rather than tap. We don't need on that joyous experience for the two of us. And, you know, When I go back to the whole teenager thing, we're starting to plan for them leaving home, you know, or becoming independent, whether they stay at home in the end and have apprenticeships. But there will come a point where they're independent adults, even if we're all living together. Rob and I have a list of weekends away. We have a list of restaurants. So, you know, there are restaurants in Birmingham. There's a gorgeous one in Cumbria called Long Plume. that we want to go to. So we will have a few days there. We'll have dinner and come home. We won't have to worry about the babysitter or the, you know, having somebody to have the children because they are independent adults. So there's kind of this mixed emotion at the moment. There's a real pride that I've got. young men who are looking to the future, excited about opportunities and, you know, sort of, oh, do I want apprenticeship? Do I want university? What's my friend doing? No, I don't want to do that. And really finding their way in the world versus, do you know what? I'm going to have a bit of my life back. I don't have a healthcare question now. My husband and I are rediscovering who we were before they came along so it's quite an exciting time although it is change and it's upheaval and you know feeding them is crazy but

SPEAKER_02: 12:23

you know that's one thing I remember you saying it's like the challenge of feeding two 17 year olds with hollow legs

SPEAKER_01: 12:29

yes

SPEAKER_02: 12:31

absolutely but what we've done we've come up with your three top tips for how to start stretching the elastic how to and I love your upbeat positivity but the fact you're very much aware that it it is a difficult time and it is going to be an emotional roller coaster. But I love the fact that you and Rob are having the conversations and involving your boys. So you've come up with your three top tips that we're going to share. And the first one you've touched on briefly with the cooking and the life skills, but equip them for the next stage of their life. And I love that

SPEAKER_00: 13:10

phrase

SPEAKER_02: 13:11

because it's supporting them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:14

Yeah, absolutely. Again, this is a very personal thing, but I wanted my boys to be confident and independent. I didn't want children who were so afraid of the outside world that they wouldn't, you know, go off somewhere. And I'll tell you a little story. And I think we did talk about this. When my boys were, I don't know, about nine or 10 in primary school, they went off for a week with the school to this outward bound place. We'll say it's Croft. And we had this meeting with the school and the school were explaining, well, they'll do this hike and they'll do this pond dipping. And, you know, it was all this kind of stuff where they're staying, what the food and all the rest of it. And at the end of the presentation, there was this sort of, Any questions? My hand went straight up. And I said, are you sure it's just for one week? Could it not be for two? And it was all done in jest. And the teachers absolutely knew it was in jest. But one of the other mums tackled me and she said, well, are you not desperately worried? And I said, I don't know quite what you mean about worried. And she was really, really worried because this was the first time her child was going to be away from her. And I said, well, it's Guildford. We live in Ealing. On a good day, that's about 50 minutes, possibly a little bit more. They've got a hospital in Guildford. There were first aiders on the teaching staff. There was a nurse on site all the time. What else? could I do? And she said, well, I can't believe you're going to be going out and having a night out. And if they need you, I said, well, if they need me, I'll work it out. It's Guilford. It's not the other side of the world. And to prepare my boys, I made them pack their clothes because I thought if they pack them, they know what's in their suitcase. They know what's theirs. They know what's not theirs. And I gave them a black sack. When they came back from Sayerscroft, the teacher said to me that my boys were the only two who knew how to pack their bag and that all the way through the week they had put all the wet, muddy stuff that they weren't going to wear in this black sack in the suitcase. So none of their dry, clean clothes got wet and muddy. And we talked about this and it was just that bit of preparation. Now, when I opened the suitcase, it was grim, you know, that they had been able to do it. And that is a skill because in the years to come, they're going to go on holiday on their own. They're going to be working and possibly they'll travel with work. If I haven't shown them how to pack a suitcase or how to pack a bag, how will they know how to do that in their independent life?

SPEAKER_02: 16:23

I did love the hair gel comment. Oh, gosh.

SPEAKER_00: 16:28

Yes, yes. They came back, and as I looked at the wash bag, the toothpaste hadn't been used at all, but the whole tube of hair gel had been used. And I, you know, put them in the shower, and I thought, oh, my gosh, there's all this hair gel and mud that's stuck in the hair gel. And it was. So they hadn't brushed their teeth all week, but, yes, their hair had looked amazing.

UNKNOWN: 16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 16:53

But I love that, the whole letting them go off, letting them have a taste of independence. And again, it's the elasticity, isn't it? It's the whole when they come back, they've got memories to share with you as well that they formed.

SPEAKER_00: 17:05

Oh, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02: 17:06

What

SPEAKER_00: 17:07

happens in Sayerscroft stays in Sayerscroft. So I have no idea other than, you know, general chit chat amongst the parents. You know, they had a great time and everything. The thing is, it's about this age appropriate. I've said it before, but it's about age appropriate. 10, 9 or 10, it's not appropriate for them to go off on their own, right? Going away securely with teachers who know them, who teach them every day into a managed environment where they feel really grown up because they're allowed to make some choices. It's empowering them. And it's that first taste of, oh, I can do this without my mum, you know? And that's really, really important because it's confidence building, you know? Because not long after that, they start going to secondary school and they maybe got to get on a bus. And maybe there's, you know, all of a sudden they don't really want their mum at the school gate like they did before. So it's that baby steps, right? to moving them forward and moving me forward into a different phase of life. Because it's a two-way thing. It's not always about them. Sometimes you're pushing them forward to do something for your own benefit. So for example, I don't do their laundry anymore. That's down to them. So I've reduced my functional work overhead at home and my domestics but they now yes they still need to be reminded how to use the washing machine at some times but they're learning a life skill then you're learning how to use an iron and I don't have to do that so win-win for me huh and there's a lot of sports kit involved isn't there there is a lot of sports kit because there's rugby there's football there's gym there's cycling there's the list is endless depending on what time of the year it is

SPEAKER_02: 19:08

But I love the fact they're trying lots of different things as well, that they're exploring in terms of those interests. But all of this idea, as you say, of the new taste for freedom, that they gain really leads beautifully into your second phrase. And I love the, it's your little sound bites. They're brilliant, which was have Oyster card, will travel. Now, obviously an Oyster card, I think it's just specific to the London area, but it's basically a travel card, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 19:40

So they, they get their travel card I think around I think you get it around 10 or 11 years old but it was definitely in time for them to have um you know their travel to to high school because they could get a bus and for a long time there was oh I want to go around to my friend's house mum can you take me in the car because they were too little and of course now they've this Oyster card and it, you know, the face will pop at the office door and it'll say, I'm just going to the gym. Okay. Yeah, fine. I mean, like for dinner, I'll sort that. Don't worry about it. And off they go. And a few years ago, I know after we, we talked the other day, I thought about this. I remember having a message from one of my boys saying, He had gone with a couple of his friends to this park area and it had been closed because of COVID. So it was sort of shortly after that opening, semi-opening period in COVID. And so the three of them being Arsenal fans had had a little chat and decided to get on the tube and off they went to the Arsenal football ground. And he sent me this little WhatsApp picture. Mum, look where I am. It's amazing here. And they were in the Arsenal shop. Oh, wow. He was just confident enough with his friends. They were all Arsenal friends and off they went. And... Again, that's really freeing for me because I'm no longer sort of, let's say, taking them to some birthday party or event or activity and then thinking, well, what am I going to do for the next two hours? Do I go home? Or am I sort of hanging around like a spare part? I can just say, yeah, off you go. See you later. I want you home. Bye. or we're having dinner at, or whatever the plan is for the day, and off they'll go. And it's really, really freeing because it just gives back time. I worked out when they went to high school, there was three hours of my day that I got back just from losing the school run on related kind of stuff.

UNKNOWN: 22:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 22:06

I know it can feel, a lot of the women I speak to, it's kind of a bittersweet thing, isn't it? That kind of evolving role as their mum. And obviously we know it's all leading towards them leaving home, whatever they choose to do, whether it's university, whether it's going to work, whether it's going travelling. But your third point really resonated with me because it's something that I've tried to do and it's not easy. It's not easy. But the fact that you can't do it for them. And again, one of your brilliant quotes, you make the choices. This is your life. Yeah. And I think that underscores and hats off to you because I say it's not easy. But I think it is a really positive attitude if we can get ourselves in that mindset.

SPEAKER_00: 22:57

Yeah. And it's sort of in the recent times, we've just gone through that whole GCSE period and it is wonderful. really hugely stressful. There's 10, you know, seven, eight, nine, 10, whatever that subjects they're studying. Some of them are subjects that they really don't like. And we had a conversation about parent that was paying her child a hundred pound for every grade nine. And my boys were like, oh yeah, I can make a lot of money here. You know, we had this conversation and I said, well, I'm not paying you anything for any grades. And they were a bit miffed. And I said, look, here's the thing. These exams are about you and your next step. You have to make a choice here because I can't do it. And me paying you£100 isn't the answer. You have to do what you have to do to get the grade that you need to get on that next step properly. you want it not because somebody's paying you because in a few years time when you're in work yes you're going to get a salary but if you don't want to do it are you going to put the effort in to get that salary so you've got to want this you've got to recognize that the choices you make about your behavior, about what you invest your time in, are your choices. If I make those choices for you by saying, I will pay you for X, Y, and Z, then you're not actually making a choice. So how are you going to make a choice later in life if you don't know how to make one. This is quite fundamental for you, I said to them. So they were like, yeah, there was a bit of, you know, well, I wanted to make all this money. And then on the day we got the results, they came home and one of my boys got a grade six, which is not a bad grade in any way, shape or form. And I said to him, because this was a bit of an outlier, I said, are you upset about that? And he said, well... He said, not really. He said, it's English literature. I'm not studying again. I'm not bothered. And he said to me, he said, I'm so glad I could come home with this six and tell you and you're not cross. He said, because there was a child in his school who felt so upset because they hadn't got all nines and they were worried about going home to talk to their mum because they hadn't got this full sort of eight, ten, nines, whatever it is. And I said to him, I said, but this is not your favourite topic. I said, this is your choice. We talked about it. It was your choice. You're happy with that grade. That's fine by me. The grades that you want to do where you go next, you've got the grades you need to achieve that next step. that's good enough for me it was never about it was about empowering them to make the decision how am I going to do this how does my choice today impact where I want to be tomorrow or next week so it's part for me that is part of that stretching the elastic it's empowering them to think about What do I want? What do I want next? And how am I going to get there? And there's a choice to make, you know? And as teenagers, and you'll know this, you've had teenagers yourself, you come up with some really tricky conversations, drug, sex, drinking, maybe, you know, different behaviours and all sorts of things. And I've never lectured them and they've said to me, you know, well, what if I start smoking? I said, well, that's your choice. It's absolutely your choice. I don't want you to, but if you come home and tell me, mum, I've had a cigarette, well, then that's up to you. You know, if you want to do all these things, you need to understand that if you do this, this is the possible consequence. And that then is the choice that you make. So, yeah. It's really important, I've always felt, to have those conversations where they can make those choices.

SPEAKER_02: 27:37

No, I'm totally with you. And I think a lot of it is... if you tell someone not to do something, the first thing they're almost going to do is turn around and do it. Especially with a teenager. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't mean they all will, but I think that's always lurking in the back of your mind. If you start setting these hard and fast rules, they're like, well, why, why is mum or dad telling me not to do this? It must be something to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 28:03

absolutely. And, you know, if you make it, And maybe it's because this is how I was as a teenager, but if you told me something was banned, that made it very, very exciting. And I'm not suggesting that all children are like that, and I'm not suggesting that I've got all the answers. It's just that this was always my approach to it. And, you know, to date, my boys don't smoke. They're not... They just... they have no interest in in any of those things and we talk openly about all of these things um and again that is just part of that stretching the elastic so that they can explore those ideas challenge what perhaps i think is normal or usual or you know in a way that's There's no issue here with challenging the idea about cigarettes, drugs, legalising, all of these world topics that as adults we've learnt about over the years. They want to challenge those ideas and come up with their own opinions on where they should be safe enough to do that at home without... or you're a naughty boy because you've got that idea or you've questioned you know whether religion is right or this is right or that's right you know you you can't especially today with the internet with the news on 24 hours a day you can't hide things from them in the way that maybe when I was a teenager pre-internet we only had four tv channels you know um It's a different world and you have to help them be quick to cope with that world, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 30:02

Well, no, I'm completely with you because I'm all about having those conversations and keeping open channels because especially with boys, when they start bottling things up, they need to feel they've got that safe space. And it doesn't mean you'll always agree with them. As you said, I like a bit of feistiness. I like a bit of them, actually, because then they're forming that, like you said, they're forming their opinions. They're actually challenging others. their own thoughts and actually as a result evolving even more from child to teenager to teen man oh it works for girls as well I mean I've only got a boy so I can't really speak from that experience but I love the fact as well that you and your husband are already having those conversations as well I don't know if you could share a bit about that because I know a lot of the women listening it might be something that they're thinking oh I need I should I the shoulds might be creeping in. I really need to sit down and have this conversation. You've been putting it off or it just feels awkward or it's scary because change is blinking scary. But I think sometimes just biting the bullet and actually saying, maybe if you're just going out for a meal and having the chat there, getting out of the house so it's in an independent space.

SPEAKER_00: 31:18

You see, I don't, my husband and I have never had a chat about that, right? And we don't. We've listened to our boys, and I think individually we thought, well, they're going to be at home, they're going to be doing the apprenticeship, and their thoughts and ideas are changing. So anyway, a few weeks ago, my boys went off to this university fair. They spoke to lots of different universities, and both of them came back, mum, I want to go, and I want to, and really, the sports facilities, and da-da-da-da-da, and they've got this great course, da-da-da-da-da. So anyway, a bit later on that evening, we were having dinner, and I said to my husband, I said, it looks like the boys are thinking of university. And he went, oh, right, okay. He said, what changed? I said, I don't really know. Off you go. And I said, it could be just you and me. And he said, oh, my God, I'm going to have to have a proper conversation with you every single day. What am I going to do with life? And that's our humour that is, you know, But we have a long list of sort of day trips and weekends away that we want to do. One of our favorite things that we have been planning for years is we want to drive from our home in London Get on the Channel Tunnel, drive from Calais down through France, stopping off at various places for dinner and, you know, wine and maybe a couple of days here, a couple of days there. Get onto the south coast, drive along around through Nice, Monaco, all that sort of thing into the Italian Riviera. And then we'll drive up from there to where his family live in Parma, which is in northern Italy. And we're planning that for about, I don't know, five, six weeks. So we would take this block of time and do this driving tour. And there's all sorts of different towns that we want to stop at for different reasons, whether there's something historical we want to see or just to soak up the atmosphere in somewhere like Nice or Cannes or, you know, all of those kinds of places. But it's not the kind of holiday that my boys would want to do. They wouldn't have wanted to do it when they were younger. And when we talk about it, they go, oh, God, how awful. You know, and that's great because it's not for them. For Rob and I, that will be fantastic because we'll stop off. We'll find a great French restaurant. We'll have an amazing cooked meal, not be Michelin star, but it will be a fantastic regional holiday. french meal of some description with great regional french wine um and maybe not even those you know the big names that we all know like champagne and beaujolais might just be from that tiny little vineyard around the corner but it complements the regional food so well and just a bit of walking out looking at history churches monuments all that kind of stuff and that's But off we go. So that's our big, big trip. But we have lots of these other little ones where, you know, we'll go off. And even in London, just getting on a bus in the morning, going into central London, going to somewhere in Covent Garden or a different museum we've never visited before, having a spot on lunch, perhaps theatre and dinner and, you know, all of these just different things that... for quite a while because we didn't have family locally it was really difficult with babysitting and all of that kind of stuff when you've got small children so we're rediscovering what life looks like for us as a couple in a way that for a long time it's not it kind of gets put to one side because your focus is on your children your business your work your all of this stuff and I mean, we've still got working years left, you know, once the boys leave. But at that point, you know, instead of cooking a pot of family dinner, we might then do something that's a little bit more what we would like to eat, you know, or we might eat out a little more often because we're not paying for, you know, two man mountains to hoover up, you know. You know, and it's those kinds of things. And I think it is really important as you start to transition through this life. I mean, I'm always going to be a mum, but I am also Jo. I'm not just somebody's mum or somebody's wife. And, you know, I suppose having the opportunity to show my husband that I am that person again. And it sounds funny to say that, doesn't it? Because... We've lived together for all these years. We've grown and all that sort of stuff that you do together as a couple. But it's easy to lose sight, as you said at the beginning, of who you are individually and who you are as a couple, you know, because you just get almost weighed down with life and management. And then all of a sudden there's this expanse of time that you can use to rediscover yourself. who you are and what you're about and what that means in terms of you as a wife and not just as a person, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 37:05

Absolutely. And I'm sure so many of the fabulous women listening will find that resonating because as you say, it's almost like taking your finger off the pause button and thinking, right, I'm here. how did I get here? It's all a bit of a whirlwind. I followed the signposts. What do I actually want now? And the things that have been bubbling away that we've put on the back burner aren't necessarily the things we actually do want now that this time, as you said, is opening

SPEAKER_00: 37:38

up. Yeah. And I think also within your marriage, you go through a process almost of reframing yourself because the person that I met earlier 20 years ago when I met my husband doesn't exist anymore because in those 20 years, you know, there's been births, there's been deaths, got married, I've moved home, you know, I'm now kind of 18 years into a marriage. That changes you. So reframing how I sit in that marriage, I'm no longer going back to being that 30-something that met my husband. I'm now a 50-something that And I see a lot of those things that I did in my 30s when we first met. And I think, actually, that's, as you say, that's not really where I want to go back to. So reframing myself, who do I want to be for me? And also, who does that person want to be as part of a whole? And there is that change that comes with that. And I think it's an opportunity. I am choosing to see it as an opportunity. I know I've got friends who are deeply unsettled by this process of change and, you know, they're worrying about the fact that they're not who they used to be and all of those things. I absolutely recognise that. For me, I'm just seeing it as an opportunity. And... I'm going out and I'm doing, I've got myself a personal trainer now. I'm starting to, I've got the opportunity to do things around my health and wellbeing, which, you know, we kind of get so busy with everything that you kind of think, do you know what? You ignore it and it kind of goes away, but it doesn't really. So there's all those things. And yeah. Yeah. It's an opportunity if you want it to be to reframe you, to reframe your life and how you fit into that life as part of that partnership. Or in some cases, not if that's the answer for you.

SPEAKER_02: 39:57

And as you say, the fear of change and trying to have those conversations and actually realising that if this relationship isn't what you want, it is okay to look at other options and you don't have to feel, I mean, this is a conversation for another time, but it is a time to actually start taking stock because it's a pivotal time.

SPEAKER_00: 40:21

Yeah. And fear, fear can hold you back so much, whether it is within or without or whatever. And, you know, It would be very easy to be afraid of what comes next when the children leave in 18 months, two years, whatever. But for me, I'm choosing to embrace it and the opportunity it affords me in so many different ways, not just as a married woman, but as an individual as well.

SPEAKER_02: 40:52

No, I love that. I love that. And I love the positivity because it is, as you say, change is scary. But opportunities are there. And I love the passion that's coming through, that you're up for it.

SPEAKER_00: 41:07

You're going to have a bit of a go.

SPEAKER_02: 41:08

Who knows? Who knows? So I think we'll just briefly recap your three points. Because you're almost, you're equipping them. But now you're kind of re-equipping yourself for the next stage. They've got the Oyster card. You're looking forward to travels on your terms as well, going to the places that have been on pause for a while. And that lovely quote of yours, you make the choices. This is your life that you say to your boys. But you did say the other day we were chatting and you summed it up. they are still leaving there's nothing you can do there's nothing we can do to stop that and we wouldn't want to this is what we've been building towards for two decades yeah and the fact they're going means that we've done not a perfect job because we're not perfect but we've done a blinking good job and we should all pat ourselves on the back but you added and i love that but we are all still leaving because we're all on this journey And we know what the end is, but in the meantime, let's have a most fabulous time while we're treading that path. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Before you do leave me today, and I'm loving our chat, and thank you for being so raw and real, because that's what Midlife Limited is all about, and I really do appreciate it, but you've given me goosebumps. Choices. Yes. I'm asking you my three questions now. Now, anyone who's new to Midlife Unlimited, at this point, I ask my fabulous female guests the same three questions. So, Jo is no exception to this rule. So, your first question is, what is your midlife anthem? The piece of music that when you hear it, you think, yes, and it makes you strut a bit and it makes you feel good.

SPEAKER_00: 43:01

Proud, Heather Small. When you listen to the lyrics in that song and you just, yeah, what have I done today to make myself feel proud? And it doesn't have to be this huge thing. It could just be, do you know what? I made my bed this morning. I put the bins out. It doesn't have to be, I made a million pounds or whatever. It just has to be, what is it for you that makes you proud? And it, you know, It's huge. And we should stop being just apologetic. And I didn't get all that done. You know, damn, I haven't washed up today. Bye, honey. It doesn't matter because you haven't washed up. You have done something today that has made a difference to you, your children, your husband, your community, your customers, whoever it is. You have made a difference somewhere, somehow. So stand up and own that and be proud of yourself. And if you can't think of anything, be proud of yourself for just being you. Get out there, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 44:16

No, I love that. I love that. I 100% echo everything you just said. It's the small steps, it really is. And it can be so overwhelming, the whole comparisonitis of, oh, I've only done this and X, Y, Z has done that. But no, just think the fact that, as you say, the fact you actually got out of bed and you did that thing. Yeah. Love it, love it. Which now I want to know, the next question, I'm intrigued for this one. What is your midlife mantra, the phrase that you live your midlife by? I

SPEAKER_00: 44:50

say who, I say when, I say how much. Now that comes from the film Pretty Woman and she references it when she's choosing her clients. But I look at it like this. I say who I spend my time with now. I say how much time I'm going to spend with you or you or you, or how much time I'm going to spend washing dishes versus going to a museum. And I say... when I'm going to do this, I no longer have to think, oh, I've got to dash back for the childcare or, oh, it's 3.30, there's a, yeah, there's a school run or there's football on Saturday, there's rugby on Sunday, there's this on, and the diary now is free. So I've got these choices. So I say who, I say how much, and I say when.

SPEAKER_02: 45:47

Brilliant. Brilliant. I want to go and watch Pretty Woman again now. Yeah. And now we're going to get, well, not literary, we're going to get autobiographical. What would be the title of your autobiography?

SPEAKER_00: 46:03

So I found this really, really difficult. Thank you, chat GPT, for suggesting 400 million options. Well, that's a bit extravagant, but you know. And the one that really stood out was The growth paradox, privacy projects and navigating life's double demands. So we're all growing as people, as individuals. I'm growing humans who are going to leave home. And my joy is privacy and projects and double demands, being a wife, a mother, business owner, all of those demands and double demands. The old double trouble. So that's that really kind of fitted in with all areas of my life.

SPEAKER_02: 46:52

You're inspirational. I love this. I love this. Now, I know the wonderful women out there will want to know how they can get in touch with you. So obviously, I'll be putting your links in the show notes and in the Facebook group Midlife Unlimited podcast. But could you just share them now a minute? How can wonderful women get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_00: 47:13

So I'm on LinkedIn. So you can find me there. I've got an Instagram profile. You can find me there.

SPEAKER_02: 47:20

Brilliant. And I say I'll be putting all those links everywhere linked to this episode. And for me, well, I'd love your feedback if you've enjoyed today's episode. It would be great if you could leave a review and maybe even tell your friends or follow us. You can also send me an email to Kate at SecondSpringLifeCoaching.com. and why not come and join the facebook group midlife unlimited podcast or you can visit the website or connect with me on linkedin kate porter second spring so Thank you, Jo, for joining me today. I've loved our conversation and I hope it's resonated with those lovely listeners out there. Thank you for listening to Midlife Unlimited. And I look forward to joining you, joining me even next week because we come out every Thursday for another conversation with another fabulous female guest. Yeah, Midlife Unlimited goes live every Thursday. So until then. Here's to being fabulous and flourishing together. Thank you again, Jo, for joining us. I don't know if you'd like to say goodbye. You're

SPEAKER_00: 48:32

welcome. It's been a real joy to have a chat with you this morning. It's lovely, lovely to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 48:40

Well, my absolute pleasure. Here's to us. Here's to the wonderful listeners. And here's to living Midlife Unlimited. Take care. Bye.