Episode #030 How to Go Grey Your Way as a Midlife Woman with Guest Helen Johnson

Going grey! How do you feel about it? Are you a proud silver sister? Or reaching for the hair dye at the first sign of an errant white strand?

When it comes to going grey, there are no rules. It’s about doing what feels right to you – not conforming to shoulds.

Whether you’re saying “yay” or “nay” to going grey, it’s yet another change that we’re encountering in Midlife.

So join your host Kate Porter The Midlife Metamorphosis Coach® and her guest Helen Johnson host of Happier Grey podcast for Episode 030 of Midlife Unlimited® as they talk about How to Go Grey Your Way as a Midlife Woman.

Since embracing her natural grey, Kate has lost count of times women have called her brave. And Helen feels so strongly about changing the grey hair narrative that she launched her podcast dedicated to women sharing their journeys.

In this episode, Helen and Kate get to the root of the issue by smashing stereotypes and busting myths around the perceived fears surrounding the natural process of going grey – from being judged for letting ourselves go, to fading into a beige background.

From root stress to Lego hair, they share insights and advice from their own journey to learning to love their grey – and the freedom it brings to turn our focus to ageing well. In Helen’s words “It was like shedding the person I never was.”

Connect with Helen

https://happiergrey.com/

https://www.instagram.com/happier.grey/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/helen-j-johnson/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm your host, Kate Porter, the midlife metamorphosis coach, and I know what it feels like to be stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in the mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know you are not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and put up with it. you don't have to play it safe. Midlife Unlimited is all about ripping off that mask and telling it like it really is, smashing stereotypes, busting myths and misbehaving because our second spring is our time to shine our way. So welcome to today's episode. Going grey. How do you feel about it? Are you a proud silver sister? Or are you reaching for the hair dye at the first sign of a white strand? When it comes to going grey, there are no rules. It's about doing what feels right to you, not conforming to shoulds. So whether you're saying yay or nay to going grey, it's just another change that we're encountering in midlife, isn't it? So I thought it was about time we talked about it on Midlife Unlimited. So I'm delighted to be joined today by my guest, Helen Johnson, host of Happier Grey podcast, to talk talk about how to go grey your way. So welcome, Helen. It's fabulous to have you here. It's lovely to be here. Now, I love the fact that you've actually dedicated your podcast to something that we just don't talk about enough. So how did it come about?

SPEAKER_01: 1:55

So I guess I've always been a bit of a catalyst. throughout my life because i am one of those people who will stand up and say if i think something's wrong um and the whole stereotype around a man can be a silver fox but a woman who goes gray is letting herself go i found really offensive um so i think there's just an enormous amount of fear around going gray primarily of judgment a lot of it is in people's own heads So after I went grey and really enjoyed the freedom of not having root stress and not having to go to the hairdressers all the time, I just thought it would be a good idea to showcase actual stories of women who've gone grey because most of them have not experienced what people think they will. And that would be a great way to kind of start to break down the stereotype in a way that I would feel comfortable with.

SPEAKER_00: 2:57

because I know you avoided the whole Instagram thing as well, because although you're on Instagram, and we'll share your contact details later on, and there are a lot of Silver Sisters sharing their journey centimetre by centimetre, inch by inch, but you decided that wasn't the way you wanted to play it.

SPEAKER_01: 3:17

No, so I'm an introvert, so... Putting myself out there is uncomfortable for me. I find it very energy sapping. And even if I get a post on LinkedIn or Instagram that starts to get a lot of feedback, it's a bit of a double-edged sword for me because it's nice to get the recognition, but it's just very tiring for me when I get all those notifications. So in terms of the podcast, I knew that I didn't want to be standing up there shouting about going grey. I just wouldn't have the energy to keep making all the content. But what I do like is listening to people's stories and chatting to people and I'm good one-to-one. So I thought that there wasn't anybody podcasting about it and I just thought it would be a great way for me to be involved in the discussion around Going Grey in a way that I felt comfortable with.

SPEAKER_00: 4:13

So I think it's very much a passion project of yours, isn't it? Because you've been going for quite a while now. I'm still relatively new in the whole podcast land. But no, you've accumulated not only a great following, but a real mix of guests as well, because everyone's got a different story, haven't they?

SPEAKER_01: 4:36

Yeah, and that has been a really conscious thing for me because I want to have guests that anyone can relate to. So I will deliberately pick like a guest. One of my guests was someone who volunteers with me at Parkrun. Whereas I've got other guests who have much bigger followings on Instagram or from around the world. I've had guests from the States and Canada, Australia, various European countries. But I don't want it to be like a celebrity showcase because that's not what it's about. I want people to think, oh, yeah, that person's like me. I

SPEAKER_00: 5:11

think that's so important. Yeah. Because, as you say, there are so many images out there and whether they're airbrushed or not, really don't care because they're all doing it their way and that's what we're going to be talking about today. But one word that always makes me laugh that I did mention to you when we had a little chat earlier, the word that since I've embraced my natural grey that I've heard quite a few times is wonderful women calling me brave and saying, oh, I wish I could find the confidence. Your hair looks so great, but I just don't feel ready. I mean, I know that's something that jars you quite a bit when you hear that word, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 5:59

Yeah, because it's such a natural thing that why should you be brave to be able to be embracing it? And I think when you kind of look at it, the whole conditioning that we've all been through since being very young and the beauty industry survives by making us feel bad about ourselves and making us thinking that we have to change things and colouring your hair has always been one of those. So people kind of feel ashamed when they find the first grey hair. And it's like, but why? It's just natural, perfectly normal.

SPEAKER_00: 6:27

Oh, it is, isn't it? showing and yeah but i i have experienced a flip side to this as well because obviously i've got my natural gray hair which i love ladies i'm a big advocate but if it's not for you but you might change your mind listening to this but i also wear glasses um and i have a 23 year old son and there have been at least two occasions in recent months when we've been out together and I've not put them right because I don't like to embarrass them, but they've referred to me as, oh, isn't it nice being out with your granny? Now, obviously I'm rocking the granny look, but we're back to stereotypes, aren't we? Someone sees a woman of a certain age. I mean, I'm 56 in June. Grey hair, glasses. She's a granny.

SPEAKER_01: 7:21

Yeah, I think part of that is because We don't accept that most women go grey or find their first grey hairs in their 20s and 30s, often in their teens. And it isn't until people get much later in life that traditionally in the last few decades that they've actually stopped dyeing it. So then it gets associated with being older when in fact many younger women have grey hair. And you see certainly on Instagram, there's a number of people in their 20s and 30s who are embracing the silver hair. they're probably the ones that are brave, I would say.

SPEAKER_00: 7:56

Yeah, but there are actual hair dyes out there now in a silver grey. Yes. It was a trend, wasn't it, for younger men and women, who knows, to actually go down the platinum grey route. And later on, because they say it's not straightforward, there are ways to explore going grey to see if it is for you. And later on, we are going to be sharing our three top tips that if you want to explore going grey your way. But first, I'd love it if you could share a bit more about your journey, because obviously you used a phrase that I loved, shedding the person you never were. And that's the freedom that you felt.

SPEAKER_01: 8:43

Yeah, the hair is part of it. So I worked in corporate marketing for 30 years, generally in factories. So very much male dominated environments and a lot of bad politics in terms of. But for me, I refuse to be bullied. from an event in my childhood, I just won't be bullied. So if you try and bully me, I will stand up to you. Sometimes to my own detriment, because I don't know when to stop. But as a result of that, I think the word most often used to describe me in corporate was intimidating. And I find it quite amusing now that I now work for myself. I worked for myself for the last five years. And when I say that to people, they just a double take it's like that how is that even possible that's just not a word we would use to describe you but um i think it's because i basically lived my 30 years in my stress reaction which which is very unhealthy when you look back on it but it's kind of if you put me in that sort of stressful situation i will fight that's just how i am um But now people will normally say kind is the word that they would use to describe me. And they just can't sort of understand the difference between the two. And I think also like in my corporate life, I was a marketing director in the end. So I had to be kind of suited and booted in my own way, which was dresses, boots, leather jackets. I had the bleach blonde hair for probably 20 odd years. And you kind of expected to maintain balance. a certain image and for me part of going grey was around shedding that whole sort of person that I never was and never recognised myself as because if someone described me to me as being intimidating I'd be like well that's not what I am it is on occasion but it's not what I am so for me the whole sort of being more relaxed, making much more time for myself. All of that has been part of the shedding exercise.

SPEAKER_00: 10:56

I'm completely with you on that because I talk a lot on Midlife Unlimited about wearing masks and we do it, but it's exhausting. It's exhausting to be pretending, following the shoulds, thinking constantly, you know, fear of judgment, fear of Putting a foot wrong, as you say, conforming to this idea of how you need to portray yourself in order to be respected or taken seriously, etc. And I do think that embracing the grey, to me, it was part of my midlife metamorphosis and it was part of me saying to heck with it. This feels right to me now. I'm done with, A, being brunette. Physically, it just wasn't doing it for me anymore. But mentally, it was just tiring. It was draining. And I think that epitomises how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_01: 12:03

Yeah, I think that's one of the things is that As a woman, you've got many stresses in your life when you've got work and you've got family and you've got other things. And root stress is just something silly to add on the top of that, but it's really real. So you'd get your hair dyed, you'd think it looked great. And then like a week to 10 days later, you start to see the whites grinning through and you automatically start to feel bad about yourself because you're kind of not feeling, I guess, that you're portraying the image anymore.

UNKNOWN: 12:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:32

And you're so conditioned to do that. But when you kind of step back from it and go, why? Why on earth am I feeling like this?

SPEAKER_00: 12:43

Yeah, absolutely. And especially now in our midlife when there are so many, well, I don't want to use the word worrying, but there are so many other aspects of our health and wellness that we, and I don't like using the word should either, but it's devastating. that we ploughed our energy into and worrying, as you say, about a grey root or a stray hair should not be up there on that list, should it? No. No.

SPEAKER_01: 13:12

I mean, I always kind of look at it and say trying to look 25 is just a losing battle. The older you get, the more you're gonna lose it. And what you should really be thinking about is I wanna age well. If I look at my mum, my mum's 89, she lives independently, she's still pretty fit and healthy. I wanna be like her. So there are things that I need to be concentrating on if I wanna get there, but trying to maintain the appearance of being 25 is not one of them. It's all more about what am I eating, How am I exercising? What's my mental health like? What am I doing in terms of connection and community? All of those things are important. But aesthetics, not that they're not important, but dyeing hair is no longer part of my story

SPEAKER_00: 13:58

anyway. I think as well, I mean, we're talking about appearance. And I think the whole idea of dyeing our hair, when... Our skin tone is shifting. And I say often, I wouldn't want to go back to being 30 or 40. I've been there, done that. But in terms of the look that was our look then, it doesn't necessarily sit. right with how our body is anyway I mean our face shape may well have changed particularly skin tone I mean that's one of the main reasons it wasn't a vanity thing but being brunette just made me look like a vampire and I don't want to look like a vampire

SPEAKER_01: 14:41

well I sometimes joke it's like lego hair yes it comes to a point where it's just not believable

SPEAKER_00: 14:50

No, that's exactly how it looked. And it is about freedom, definitely. And another word that we use a lot, but I think self-acceptance, it's an important part of that as well. It is

SPEAKER_01: 15:08

because you have to kind of confront the idea that you're going to get a lot of judgment and you have to be comfortable with that. And in order to do that, you've got to be much more happy in yourself and who you are and what you are. And I think an awful lot of people have said it's not just about stopping dyeing your hair. It is a much wider process when you actually get into it.

SPEAKER_00: 15:35

No, definitely, because there is so much stigma, like we said, isn't there? And like you said, the phrase, oh, she's let herself go or well. brave but i have found though that the more people obviously i'm sure you've spoken to far more people than me that have embraced it as part of your podcast but a lot of the fear is unfounded it's with like with so many things that we do in life we can overthink things can't we

SPEAKER_01: 16:07

yeah and one of my guests really sort of amused me when it's just that you just need to get over yourself people aren't watching you they're watching themselves and a lot of people think oh i'm going to ruin something like one of my guests was kind of like i've got lots of weddings to go to in the year that was going around i was worried that i would ruin all the pictures and it's like but actually i didn't look so bad but it is it's like well actually the bride is not going to be concerned about what your hair is like when she looks at the pictures but you kind of build it up into your head that you're more important or certainly your appearance is more important to other people than it actually is most of the time. They're more concerned about, are you happy if they're your friends than

SPEAKER_00: 16:49

what you

SPEAKER_01: 16:49

look like?

SPEAKER_00: 16:50

No, absolutely. And we know we've talked about the whole idea of judgment and it is one of those decisions that like so many that we treat as if there's no turning back once we go down that route. But there are ways of experimenting, aren't there? There are ways of giving it a go and seeing how it feels, seeing if it feels right to you.

SPEAKER_01: 17:15

Yeah, there are. I mean, there are filters that you could try on that kind of look like a grey wig to see what you might look like to start with on some of the platforms. But certainly if you do start to grow it properly, it's not irreversible if you don't like it you can just dye it again and I always say I'm not telling everybody to go grey you need to do what's right for your mental health and what you feel comfortable with and if dyeing your hair makes you feel better then you should keep doing it

SPEAKER_00: 17:44

oh my granny She dyed her hair brunette. I think she only stopped dying it just before she died. And she died when she was 90 something. She did look like she was wearing a strange hat, though. I must admit. But it made her feel good. She rocked it on her way. So I think we've spoken about it already, mentioning our lessons learned and our top tips. And you might have others that spring to mind as we go through. But I think the first one, if someone came to me, male or female, and gentlemen, if you're listening and you're thinking about the whole Silver Fox thing, we've got to come up with a name for us. What are we? Silver Vixen doesn't really sound as good, does it?

UNKNOWN: 18:32

No.

SPEAKER_00: 18:33

I don't know. I mean, there's Silver Sisters, but that always sounds a bit like rawr.

UNKNOWN: 18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:39

The first step is, though, the practical side of it, isn't it? The actual grow out. I mean, how did you actually tackle the grow out?

SPEAKER_01: 18:49

Well, I grew my hair out in Covid, so I had it bleached blonde before. Obviously, there was no option to go to the hairdressers. My husband offered to dye it for me and I told him to go away. I love that. He is the man that can get wrinkles in glass paint. So there was no way he was getting near my head with dye. And also, I talked about it for a couple of years beforehand, to be fair. So I just let it grow. And then after about... 18 months probably, I had it in a layered bob because by that point I just hated it. I just needed the colour gone. So I guess I kind of toughed it out in a way, in the way that some people do with the stripe. And I haven't had short hair since I was in my 20s and I didn't want to go there. So the pixie wasn't really an option for me, but obviously quite a lot of people do that. And one lady that I spoke to, she actually did a buzz cut apart from her fringe.

SPEAKER_00: 19:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 19:48

And she now has waist-length grey hair.

SPEAKER_00: 19:52

Amazing. There are so many options. I mean, I kind of went for the chopper bit. And then had the brunette stripped out. So I was left with a kind of a kind of an orangey blonde that then made it. And I didn't actually think, oh, right, I'm now going to let it grow out. But I say it was kind of COVID and I started liking it. And actually, I like my hair colour far more than I ever really did, I think, as a brunette. because it's the natural lights. And I'm quite lucky in terms of, well, you have as well, lots of different tones. It's not just one flat colour. And I think when people think all going grey, they just imagine this helmet of grey. But no, you get, it looks like you've got lowlights and highlights. And I often say when people go, oh, you're brave to do that. And I'm like, well, I've got, people would pay a fortune to actually sit and have all these lowlights and bits of tinfoil woven in. I get it for free. It's great. But I say, if in doubt, obviously talk to people. Well, Helen's here. Have a word with Helen. I'm happy to give my tuppence worth always. But I was going to say the other thing

SPEAKER_01: 21:12

that I'm seeing a lot more of is talk around grey blending. So having it having highlights and lowlights to dye your hair once you've got a few inches of roots to dye your hair so that it is the colour that it's going to become. without having to have it cut short. So it is that sort of two tone effect of the lighter and darker. So people are doing that who don't want to have the stripe because the stripe can be quite confronting, particularly if you've dyed your hair black or very dark brown. So definitely hearing more of that and also people sort of preparing. So maybe a year, couple of years ahead, starting with highlights and then lowlights so that rather than going cold turkey, which a lot of us did in COVID, doing it in a way that they're going to feel more comfortable looking in the mirror because there will be days when you're not.

SPEAKER_00: 22:07

And be prepared for the fact that it will be a change. And I know that might sound daft saying it, but if you are going from darker hair to grey platinum hair, You're moving back to looking in the mirror going, who is that woman? But in a really good way. Trust me on this one. But I think the next tip that I would put out there, and it's something I say all the time anyway, ditch the shoulds and any comparisonitis. Don't follow the herd.

SPEAKER_01: 22:48

Yeah, I think that's very true. I think it's very much a decision of your own. and don't get to head up. There's some brilliant groups on Facebook in particular where you're not just seeing the beautiful women, you're seeing everybody and they're talking about their doubts and how would you handle this issue and I'm not feeling confident today and all of that sort of stuff within those groups and they get a lot of support which I think is a really powerful tool for the days that you're feeling a bit low.

SPEAKER_00: 23:23

Because I say, if you are having a low day or just not feeling particularly self-confident, losing part of your image that you've been so used to can exacerbate that, can't it? I think that it can, but I think also it's

SPEAKER_01: 23:42

very easy to forget that you've always had bad hair days.

SPEAKER_00: 23:46

Oh,

SPEAKER_01: 23:47

yeah. Throughout your life, there have been days you think, oh, I just look a mess. And then has anyone actually noticed? Has anyone actually thought that apart from you? Probably

SPEAKER_00: 23:55

not. No, it's like you said earlier. We do worry. I mean, I try not to. I'm a mindset coach. I'm all about positive mindset. But hey, ladies, it happens. It happens. And you don't always feel like wearing a hat. But you're absolutely right what you said earlier, Helen, that We can worry what other people are thinking about us, but when it comes down to it, they're not. And if they are, let them get on with it. And I'm not just quoting the whole let them movement because I've been saying for years, let the judges judge. I haven't got the time or the energy to waste on what other people are thinking about me anymore. I've done that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:39

And it's normally a reflection on them and their own personal issues rather than it is on you anyway.

UNKNOWN: 24:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:44

No, absolutely. So I think my final bit of advice, and I think you're with me on that, is whatever you decide to do, whether you decide to say yay or nay to the grey, own it. Own that decision because it's our decision. It's our choice, isn't it? Not anyone else's.

SPEAKER_01: 25:05

Completely. And I think it's important that it is a choice

SPEAKER_00: 25:09

and

SPEAKER_01: 25:10

that you think about it, even if you're going to keep dyeing your hair. maybe think about why. Yeah. And what's, what's the drivers behind that?

SPEAKER_00: 25:21

Yeah. It's, it's like most things we do, isn't it? Whether it's, I don't know, wanting to lose weight or wanting to get fit. It's all about getting clear on the why and making sure that why aligns with what we actually want with our values rather than what other people are thrusting upon us.

SPEAKER_01: 25:40

I think that's,

SPEAKER_00: 25:41

sorry, one of the things. No, no, no, you

SPEAKER_01: 25:43

go, you go. Really good things with COVID was that it did break habits. So much of what you do is just complete habit. You don't question it. You've done it for years and years and years. And it was a time when people sort of took a deep breath and went, do I want to work this way? Do I want to look this way? Have I got the right balance in my life? All those sorts of questions are really important in terms of how you're going to feel about yourself and whether you're going to be happy.

UNKNOWN: 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:12

Absolutely. And you might find if you try it that you do feel happier grey to see what I did then. But if you don't, so what? Diet again. That's what I'd say. Nothing is set in stone. As we both said, it's your choice. Is there anything else that you think, oh, that sprung to mind? From your journey or from people you've spoken to? I'm trying to think. Of my friendship group, it's a real mixed bag. It's a real mixed bag. I think I was one of the first to go grey. And some are letting it through. A lot are, as you say, going down the low-light, high-light mix. But I was watching... Sorry, you say? A

SPEAKER_01: 27:14

lot less cold turkey than I was during COVID. Yeah. Much more conscious, which I think is a good thing because you're likely to enjoy the grow out process more if you go that route.

SPEAKER_00: 27:27

Yeah, I think just have some fun with it. And if you don't like it, it's not set in stone. You don't have to stick with it. If it doesn't feel right for you right now, Go back to the colour that does feel good for you, that you do feel comfortable with, and try it again later on. Or don't. Be like my granny.

SPEAKER_01: 27:51

Actually, the one other thing that I was going to say was a lot of people have talked about not fading into the background because I think the concern for a lot of people when they go grey is they're in some way diminished. They need to start wearing beige. They need to have the haircut short, sit in a corner quietly. And that's really not what I found with a lot of people. They're wearing brighter colours than they've ever done. They feel more confident in themselves and they are taking much better care of themselves because they are thinking about their nutrition they are thinking about strength training exercise all of those things as well as their appearance so probably the absolute opposite

SPEAKER_00: 28:32

of what a lot of people accuse them of absolutely with you I cannot go near anything pastel it just drains me I just look like some weird ghost so no I mean anyone that's seen my branding anyone that's seen my podcast graphics green leopard print well, red lipstick I've been wearing for years and leopard print. But no, I'm all about, for me, it was an experiment that's led me to experiment and unleash my curiosity in all aspects of style. I think it's given me renewed definitely because it was part of a whole metamorphosis for me. I love it. I love it. I would say, give it a go. And I say, what's the worst that can happen if you don't like it? You can change. Yeah, yeah. It's not irreversible. But something that is irreversible are the three answers to my three questions that I ask each of my fabulous female guests. Well, you can change them. They're not set in stone. So I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued to hear what your answers are. So... My first question is, what is your midlife anthem? What lights you up when you hear it? What makes you think, yes, this is Helen, this makes me feel fabulous?

SPEAKER_01: 30:05

Okay, well, it's not actually a piece of music. It is birdsong. And the reason is, I guess, since I started working for myself, one of the things I do is get outside every day. for a walk or run in nature. I love being outside. It really lights me up. I don't listen to music when I'm out. I don't listen to podcasts. I just absorb what's around me. Hence the bird song. It's not that I don't like a song and I'll happily sing along in the car when there's a song on the radio. But yeah, bird song.

SPEAKER_00: 30:40

No. Oh, I love that. No, I'm very much with you. I'm a big fan of mindfulness and getting out in nature. So I think that's beautiful. I remember my, I think it was my dad used to have an album of birds song. Goodness knows where that came from. But now I think that's brilliant. Yeah. And being able to just go out and listen to them. So does that mean you're, is it dawn chorus we're talking or just general? Just general.

SPEAKER_01: 31:12

I live on the edge of a city. Like I can walk from my house straight into fields and into the woods and stuff. Yeah. Any time of day the birds are singing.

SPEAKER_00: 31:20

No, yeah, I'm lucky. I'm in a little village just outside a big town. But no, it is lovely to be able to explore nature a bit. Oh, well, you've shaken things up a bit there. I like that. I like that a lot. I want to know now, question two, what is your midlife mantra? Are you going to be shaking things up a bit with this as well? I

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

guess it's follow the joy.

SPEAKER_00: 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:45

So not shaking up so much, but kind of saying you need to make, really do need to make time for the things that you love. Because it's so easy, certainly when you're working in corporate and you've got a family to just be doing stuff for everybody else and not really doing things for you. So, but also even within that, just saying, okay, what within this do I really like? I'm trying to sort of do that with work as well and just anything.

UNKNOWN: 32:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:15

Absolutely. I just always say it's finding what lights you up. I know there's a lot of talk about passion and purpose, but it all boils down to, yeah, what lights you up? What makes your heart sing? Yeah. I love that. And the final question, and I think you've got so many stories from your podcast that you could weave into this as well. So what is the title of your autobiography?

SPEAKER_01: 32:46

It's, you're talking shite. Which kind of would sum up both around the grey hair thing, but also around my journey in my corporate life. Because I was always, I would never respect authority. I respect people for their actions, not for their position. Which Got me into plenty of trouble, as you can imagine.

SPEAKER_00: 33:14

Well, I want to know more now.

SPEAKER_01: 33:17

I mean, I had stupid things like we had a president of the company who was an American woman. She used to come over and she would literally look you up and down from head to foot. to check that you had your roots done, your makeup was nice, you approved your outfit, etc. And if she didn't, you would get the lemon face. So if I was wearing something that got the lemon face, the next time she came over, I would deliberately wear it again. Because it's like, no, you've got to get over yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 33:47

The thing is, you wonder, though, how she felt about herself as well, though. The fact that she was putting so much judgment onto you. How was she... feeling about oh I always do think that people like that are probably not happy in their own skin

SPEAKER_01: 34:04

yeah I think that's probably true but yeah so there were many instances in my corporate life where I would be a bit of an arse I guess when I thought someone needed to get over themselves and obviously an autobiography would cover all of your life not just the podcast

SPEAKER_00: 34:23

so I don't know Definitely. Well, I think that in between recording podcasts, I think you need to get writing that. I need to read that. On a beach somewhere, I quite fancy that. So talking more about your podcast then, I'm sure the ladies listening would like to get to know you even more because it's been a joy having you on today to talk about something that It's close to my heart. It's close to your heart. And hopefully will have resonated with the women listening in some way or another. So how can listeners get in touch with you? What's the best way? Obviously, all your details will be in the episode show notes and you'll have a guest profile on the Midlife Unlimited podcast website as well. But talk us through how can women get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_01: 35:15

So in terms of finding the podcast, it's on Apple, it's on Spotify, it's on all the major platforms. It is Happier Grey podcast. For in terms of socials, the place you'll most find me is on Instagram at happier.grey. But as we talked about, I am an introvert. So in terms of posting anything other than my podcast episodes, highly sporadic, depending

SPEAKER_00: 35:40

on what mode

SPEAKER_01: 35:41

I'm in.

SPEAKER_00: 35:42

When the mood takes you. But again, otherwise you're conforming to the should, isn't it? You should be posting X number of times a day, a minute. So not happening. Every time you eat something exciting, you put in a... I almost forgot what I was going to say there. No, I remember. I remember. Yes. So if today's episode has resonated with you, I'd love to hear your feedback. So it'd be fabulous if you could leave a review. Or you can email or text me via the link in the show notes or come and join the Midlife Unlimited podcast Facebook group. Again, the links in the show notes where you'll find the link to the Midlife Unlimited podcast website. And on there are details of exclusive VIP offers for my midlife metamorphosis coaching. So thank you for joining me today, Helen. It's been great. Great. I think we've shaken things up. We've smashed those stereotypes. We've busted those myths. And we've embraced the grey our way. Thank you for listening today. I look forward to you tuning in next week. Don't forget Midlife Unlimited has a new episode every Thursday, available wherever you listen to your podcasts. So here's to living Midlife Unlimited. Thanks for joining me, Helen.

SPEAKER_01: 37:10

Thank you.