Episode #036 How to Be A Perfectly Imperfect Mother-in-Law with Guest Jenny Gordon

The mother-in-law. Chances are we have one, are one… or will one day be one.

But why oh why does this role get such a bad rap?

The hard-faced dragon… the monster-in-law. And the butt of many jokes.

It’s yet another time for us to reassess our ever-evolving role as a Midlife mum!

So just how can we go about navigating the emotional minefield of sharing our child with their new partner that becoming a mother-in-law entails?

If this resonates with you as a Gen X woman, join your host Kate Porter The Midlife Metamorphosis Coach® and her guest The Mother-in-Lawsome and Brilliance Coach at Jenuine Consulting Jenny Gordon for Episode 036 as they talk about How to be a Perfectly Imperfect Mother-in-Law.

Kate and Jenny smash outdated stereotypes and bust myths in this episode as they debate all things mother-in-law – from why father-in-laws get off easy, to how to cope with no longer being our kids’ number one focus?

The pair share insights and advice on how to avoid the dreaded risk of alienation in our metamorphosis to mother-in-law by finding our place in this new and ever-evolving relationship structure and owning it our way.

And Jenny, who’s on a mission to rewrite the mother-in-law narrative, unveils her top tips for how to face losing our “top female” status and embrace this new role free from the fear of walking on eggshells. 

Connect with Jenny

http://www.jenuineconsulting.com

https://linktr.ee/thebrilliancecoach

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm your host, Kate Porter, the Midlife Metamorphosis Coach. And I know what it feels like to be stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in the mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know you are not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and put up with it. You don't have to play it safe. Midlife Unlimited is all about ripping off that mask and telling it like it really is. Nothing is off limits because together there's no limit to what we do. can achieve. So welcome to today's episode, The Mother-in-Law. Chances are we have one, are one or will one day be one. But why oh why does this role get such a bad rap? The hard-faced dragon, the monster-in-law and the butt of many jokes. It's yet another time for us to reassess our ever-evolving role as a midlife mum. So just how can we go about navigating the emotional minefield of sharing our child with their new partner that becoming a mother-in-law entails? So I'm calling in the expert and I'm delighted to be joined by my guest today, Jenny Gordon, the mother-in-law-some and brilliance coach at Genuine Consulting, to talk about how to be a perfectly imperfect mother-in-law. So welcome, Jenny. It's lovely to have you here. Hello, Kate.

SPEAKER_01: 1:49

I

SPEAKER_00: 1:50

am so excited and delighted to be chatting with you

SPEAKER_01: 1:53

today.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54

Well, this is a topic that we just had to cover on Midlife Unlimited because we kind of mentioned it in passing in a couple of episodes. Whenever I hear mother-in-law, it always takes me back. And I can't remember if it was Bernard Manning or Les Dawson, but the 80s jokes, you know, take my mother-in-law, please. I mean, it is something that it seems to have been OK, but we don't hear father-in-law jokes, do we?

SPEAKER_01: 2:20

No, I think, and when I was researching this topic to see whether there was an issue around, was it just my imagination or was it really an issue? And then, of course, I was just inundated. And there are thousands of really dodgy mother-in-law jokes, which through the 60s, 70s, 80s, it's almost a caricature of the role. Yeah. You're absolutely right. Father-in-laws almost don't get to mention, whereas mother-in-laws are created as caricatures, as you say, monster-in-laws, hideous, just all of the terrible traits rolled into one and used as the butt of jokes. And I think part of the reason is because We make jokes about things that we are fearful of. We hide behind humour to avoid having conversations that really matter.

SPEAKER_00: 3:32

No, I think that's so true. I think that's so true. And I'm delighted that later on we're going to be going into advice and lessons learned from both your research and your own experience. But as you say, it is when we build up these conversations, The stereotypes kind of infringe on how we then feel about our own mother-in-laws and our own metamorphosis into becoming one, isn't it? And I know that you're very keen on smashing the belief about walking on eggshells because that's something that epitomises not having the conversations, worrying about boundaries, doesn't it? Absolutely. And, you know, being a mother-in-law shouldn't

SPEAKER_01: 4:15

feel like, I don't like the word should, but shouldn't feel like walking on eggshells, should it? Oh, should, that terrible word. Yeah. But I think in the grand scheme of things, all relationships evolve over time. They involve people. I work on the principle that there is enough love to go round. Love isn't a finite commodity, is it? The more we give, the more we share, the more we create. There's plenty to go round. And I think that... There's a difference between walking on eggshells and being respectful and taking care with other people's feelings, experiences and perspectives.

SPEAKER_00: 5:06

And as you said just now, it is about the fear of the unknown. And I know we both work a lot with that because we can't predict what we can maybe predict, but we're not going to be necessarily right about it. and this is a big shift again in being a mum because we are no longer our kids number one focus and it is that thought of does he she love me in the same way and I know one thing you mentioned when we had our little pre-chat because I do like to do that I do like to have a bit of a brainstorm before an episode about the difference between a mother being I put my teeth in being a mother-in-law with a girl, with a daughter and with a son and how you've heard from women that you've worked with and spoken to that it is quite a different shift.

SPEAKER_01: 5:59

It is. And there's an old saying, isn't there? And I've looked to see where it comes from and I can't actually find the source. So if anybody knows what the source is, please tell me. Yeah. So your daughter's your daughter all of her life. Your son's your son till he gets him a wife. I think for that mother archetype if you like your children you've spent your whole life from the moment of conception you've grown them in your uterus you've then given birth to them you've kept them alive sometimes by whisker, you've nurtured them, whatever they're, you know, you've nurtured them, you've grown them. And there is a, there is a, a conception, you know, a perception rather that, you know what's best as a parent. You know your child best. You know what's best for them. You know how they work, how they tick. You know their innermost feelings, their secrets. You know them because you made them. And I think that isn't necessarily always true. We think it should be and we cling on to it, but often it isn't. And our children are you know, of us, but they're not us. And they are their own human beings. And they may share all of their secrets, some of their secrets, their hopes, their dreams, but it isn't a given. And when as they as they grow into adults they have different influences what they read who they talk to who their friends are what they learn what their their strengths are what their preferences are all of those things belong to them and not to us as as parents and it can be a it can be a challenging transition to accept on both sides that your, your parent, your mother or your father is, is a, an imperfectly perfect human being and not just a parent. And that from a parent point of view, they're not just your children. They are people in their own right. And they are different from you and they're, Learning to love them and let them go because it's their journey. And I think it's tricky. I think it's hard to do. And for that connection, daughters, it seems to be, daughters will say that they maintain that ease. And maybe it's something to do with the child. the feminine, I don't know. I think there's not been enough research done, but definitely that mothers of sons, that is tricky because as you said, you go from being the number one to the number two and possibly three or four or whatever the priority is. And that's hard, that can be hard to take. And because we don't, often have those conversations and we don't acknowledge it as a loss. And it might be, it might start to happen before you become a mother-in-law-some, you know, when they go away to college or they move out from

SPEAKER_00: 9:51

home. That's what I was thinking, the whole empty nesting journey. And it starts for me, I mean, listeners know well, I am mother to one rather fabulous boy called Finlay. Hello, darling. And you are... mother of sons as well. And I found it really started with empty nesting. And the whole, the physical leaving, you soon realise that there is, although we are still hugely close, there is, as you said, the start of the mental shift as well. As the child that you've nurtured through school, whether they've been at boarding school or whatever, you tend to know what they're thinking and you tend to know what their interests are and you tend to know what matters to them and their priorities. And then suddenly they've entered this big wide world of, that you're not, you haven't got your finger on the pulse as such anymore. And it's lovely because, you know, new surprises and new things and new conversations can spark, but it can feel that you're out of the loop. And it's how you want to get back in the loop, but you don't want to be, as I say, boundaries, isn't it? You don't want to be constantly like, oh, you didn't tell me about that. Oh, you didn't, I didn't know about that. And you find yourself thinking, gosh, I'm being a bit of a badger here. I'm like, why aren't you telling me about so-and-so? It's like, well, I didn't think you'd be interested or, oh, I thought I had. And it's like, you don't want those conversations because they can make you feel like, oh, God, I am a spare wheel now, aren't I? Who am I?

SPEAKER_01: 11:21

It's acknowledging that it's the end of one era and the beginning of another. And I... And I think it's that there's a combination of acknowledging the, and I think it is grief. It's a loss. Acknowledging the change in that, in that era that you have gone from being, you know, the holding to the watching. And it doesn't mean that you can't be close. I feel that I'm incredibly close with all of, with each of my sons who are, each very different, although they had the same parents, the same nurturing, the same upbringing, they lived in the same house. It is fascinating that, isn't it, how they are? Yeah, of course they are. But I recognise that their lives, they have their own life, of which I am a part, but I am not the part. There are many other aspects and that they... choose to they choose which aspects of their lives that they involve you in and of course if those aspects are aligned with yours then it's peachy but if you feel that there are aspects that you'd like to be involved in and you're not then you it can leave you feeling you know left out shut out and that's where you get that resentment and um feeling that you are put on one side not important all of those they don't love me enough all of those things so we we make up stories don't we all of us we make up stories about well they they don't love me enough I'm not important anymore which then feeds into behavior that is less than ideal which then causes other issues and before you know it you've snowballed into a whole unintended mayhem and you know maelstrom of feelings and and nobody's clear and it's just a complete nightmare. No,

SPEAKER_00: 13:47

because one rather extreme but rather fabulous example you reminded me of is the wonderful Jane Fonda and the role that she creates. And for listeners that haven't seen, talk us a bit about The Monster-in-Law because it is just like the worst possible scenario that in theory should be a warning to us all. But again, the shoulds, I bet we all will be doing some of it at some

SPEAKER_01: 14:15

time. Absolutely. Jane Fonda was just I say that she played the consummate caricature didn't she and within the reason caricatures are funny is because all of us see aspects of ourselves in them uh and we can go oh oh I think I might have done that oh oh heavens I have had exact so we we can see in somebody else what sometimes we can't see in ourselves at the time so there's a uh and I think that's the fondness um for caricatures and you know you um She did some hideous things, didn't she, in that movie? Really, really terrible things. But you kind of identified, there was an empathy to her because we understood that she was feeling left out.

SPEAKER_00: 15:19

That's the whole idea. Self-worth, isn't it? low self-worth and worry of being left alone. The whole slap in the face of the clock ticking, the sands of time. We're not getting any younger. What are we going to do with our purpose? It all comes into play, no matter how extreme. It's a sliding scale, isn't it? But as you say, it resonates. It resonates. And comedy, sorry, I talked over you there, but comedy can be a really powerful way of triggering conversations that can be constructive and positive conversations, can't they? It's a good way of tackling those issues that might arise rather than locking them away and letting them fester.

SPEAKER_01: 16:06

Absolutely. And when we bring, you know, when we bring things out into the open, then it makes it easier to have that conversation because you can say, ask the question, do I do that? And you hope that your child will say, absolutely. No, of course not. Or they might go, yeah, you do actually. You're really annoying when you do that. And you can enter the conversation. And I think it's that ability to have conversations and a level of self-awareness that we often don't have. Self-awareness is hard, isn't it? It's that gift that keeps on giving. And sometimes when people say to us, particularly people who are close, when you do that, this is the impact it has on me. It can be hard to hear because we were only trying to help. We were trying to do our best. We were whatever. So our intentions can be different. misunderstood and again it's down to that communication isn't it communication and clarity and being sure that we have um created an environment where we can have really honest and open conversations where people can say say how they're feeling and talk about impact without feeling that it is um the person that you're having a go at. It's separating the person from the behaviour, which I think is often tricky. We kind of roll them all up into one, don't we?

SPEAKER_00: 17:53

Oh, absolutely. Because it's like, you know, our comments and the things we say We perceive that they're meant in a certain way, but it's not. It's all about how the person we're saying them to takes them, because that is what we're communicating. And even though we can say, well, I didn't mean it like that. That doesn't matter. It's how they've taken it. That is the important bit. And that's what we have to deal with. Now, I'm loving this. I'm loving this. And as we said, you know, it's there are so many automatic changes. negative connotations to the mother-in-law. I'm hoping I'm going to be a good one, but you do feel as though I mean failure is something I'm all about let's go fail let's go fail and learn from it but it's almost like we're setting ourselves up for failure before we even start aren't we like oh no we can't do this we can't do that as you said the dreaded shoulds come in or we really should be doing this we should be doing that and it is a minefield it is a minefield

SPEAKER_01: 18:58

I think there's something it is a minefield potentially I think as ever there are there are um a couple of things that I use, I practice every day. So the first is gratitude. At my age, I'm really grateful when I wake up in the morning and I can bounce out of bed and nothing hurts. I think that's always great. So counting your blessings and doing the practice of gratitude helps you, I think, see the positive aspects of life. And I don't mean kind of that, You know, positivity at all costs, even when things are going badly or life has thrown you some curved walls or smacked you in the face with something else. It's about looking for those glimmers, the positive, tiny glimmers that keep you going. And so the first thing is gratitude. And the second is that every morning I get to choose my attitude differently.

SPEAKER_02: 19:59

I

SPEAKER_01: 19:59

do it when I'm in the shower every morning and it writes what's my attitude of the day just for today I'm not worried about tomorrow yesterday's gone just for today what's my what's my attitude and I get to choose that each of us has the has that choice even when we think we don't we do so we can choose our attitude um and I find that because it's an intentional choice I I It sets me up for the day. Sometimes it lasts until lunchtime. Sometimes it lasts all day. Depends what's going on. But that intentional attitude. So I can say I'm approaching the day with grace. If I'm thinking that I might have some challenging conversations ahead, then not this one, by the way. Good to hear. It's not over yet, though. Yeah. You can, you can, you can approach it with grace. And then I can remind myself that that's how, you know, I've got my, my graceful way of being on. So we get to choose. And I think I, I love my sons. Dearly, dearly, dearly love them. But I am not blind. to their imperfections. And so when they went out into the world and they met their partners who loved them enough to marry them, I was really grateful that somebody could love them and their imperfections and want to, you know, marry them. So my attitude was one of gratitude. Now I

SPEAKER_00: 21:46

love that because... We want our... children's partners to love them as the whole them to love them as they are not to love a pedestal version because that is doomed to my my way of thinking we want them to know them to love them and again it's going to be a slightly well yeah quite a different way to how we do but no in terms of their likes their passions their their dreams their hopes their fears the whole package isn't it it's not just thinking oh he's quite handsome and you know no it's, it's far more, it goes far deeper than that for a lot to my mind for a lasting relationship that I'll think. Yeah. That's

SPEAKER_01: 22:28

good. Yeah. And I think when we can have, you know, when you, when you have that shared understanding that they, they are lovable with that, with all their perfections as we all are, and that you can bring that love, you know, unconditional positive regard is the, is the psychological term for it. But it is that thing about accepting, accepting it. And, and the fact that they, I didn't just accept, I was incredibly grateful and welcomed these women, fabulous women that they are into, into my life because I, They were, they are fabulous. And so they're very, each of my daughters-in-law are very different. I have different relationships with each of them. Of course they have, yeah. Of course, because in the same way that you have different relationships with your friend, you might have 10 friends. You don't have the same relationship with each of those friends because they are all individual people. So the relationship is a one to one relationship that is based on them as individual people, not just friends. oh, she's my mate. And it's exactly the same with your children, your offspring, because they're not children anymore, are they? Offspring and their partners is that you can love them as a couple, but you can also have an individual relationship with each of them because they're individual people and respecting who they are and loving them for who they are in their in their entirety uh it's really I think it's really important and they may be very different to you um and

SPEAKER_00: 24:32

that's okay no absolutely because one thing that kind of we talked about before briefly it's not a competition is it it's not a competition between us and them because I think the minute we have that sort of mindset towards it it's it's a recipe for disaster. We're not trying to say that we're better than them or worry that they're better than us or we're loved more than, because that's not how it works, is it?

SPEAKER_01: 24:59

No, and I think it's, I think it's, an opportunity for the dreaded virus comparisonitis, soul shriveling virus to sneak in and that comparing one of the things my eldest daughter-in-law said to me was when she first met me, she said it was really obvious that your relationship with your son was really close and it was really special and she said I was firstly in awe of it and she said oh my god that it's not something uh that I had encountered before um it gosh it's a lot how am I going to navigate so I think that's a really uh really good question how do I navigate how do I ride alongside in that relationship I don't have to be I don't have to top trumps it you know I don't have to be better than how do I work with it and my invitation to people in that situation is to be yourself it's much easier when you're being yourself and to Again, acknowledge that this is new, that we're just getting to know each other. We're going to make mistakes. We're going to say the wrong thing. We're going to unintentionally put our foot in it. But it's about being open to say, oh, read the room. Read the room is a really good. If you sense that in some way that you have said something wrong, that hasn't landed in the way that you intended. You know, sorry. And I think I've said, I say it often, sorry is a full sentence. When it has a but in it, sorry but, the but cancels out the sorry, doesn't it? So you can just say, I'm sorry. Full stop.

SPEAKER_00: 27:16

Because, I mean, alienation and separation are two dangers that are lurking there, aren't they? And again, it is if we unwittingly maybe say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, but don't cotton on and acknowledge and take responsibility or at least accept that. what we meant to do in, you know, we were trying to do the best that we could at that time because that's how we humans function. We made the best choice we could at the time, but it doesn't mean that rings true with our son, daughter, their partners. And this is how many problems come apart, come to be, isn't it? Because we think they should be behaving in the same, they think we should be behaving in a certain way.

UNKNOWN: 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:03

exactly and there are you know there are we all like to be right don't we so we all we all we all start from our own perspective we all have a view a perspective of life um and it comes from you know we're from in the inside looking out so that's our perspective and I think it can be very easy to think that ours is you know ours is the right way uh and it was funny I was at posting this morning on one of my social media platforms and saying that I have, I love a map. I love a map. I can read a map if I turn it the way that I'm going. But there are many, often there are many different routes to the same destination. So what, and it's the same as relationships, isn't it? So as a mother-in-law, some coach says, It's helping people to look at their options. What are the different options that you have and which one works for all of you in that situation? And if you think about all of the family traditions that we have or ways of being or whether you write thank you letters for birthdays, whether you celebrate birthdays, whether presents are a big deal, whether a card is okay, whether you send a text, whether you don't, And so often people were saying when I've had conversations, they say, oh, I was waiting for them to tell me. I was like, did you ask? Well, no, I was waiting for them to tell me and they didn't. And so now I've got the hump. What would have happened if you had said you've got a big birthday coming up? How do you want to celebrate? What can I do to support you? Is it something we're planning together? Are you going away for a romantic weekend, the two of you? you know, it's about those choices and those intentions and understanding them. But if you don't have the conversations, how will you know? That's when you write the story, isn't it? Or they haven't replied to my text. Does that mean they're cross with me? Maybe I've said the wrong thing or I better not interfere anymore. So we make up all these stories that most of which are completely unfounded their assumptions their judgments that aren't based on fact or reality and then the longer they sit there the bigger they grow don't they they're like mushrooms in the dark

SPEAKER_00: 30:41

absolutely we're filling in the blanks and use and using the old mother-in-law stereotype scenarios to fill in the blanks as well so obviously i love that you're going to be sharing More of your top tips, but you've shared so many already. But what I'd like to know then, mother-in-law-some, how did this come about? Because I think it's such a wonderful mission and I'm part of it. I'm excited. I think this is very, you know, myself and midlife unlimited we're all about having the conversations smashing the stereotypes getting it out there because when we don't have the conversations as we've been saying in our conversation that's where the trouble brews that's where the discontent the crossed wires the it's my fault it's your fault the blame the sadness the loneliness the not seeing your grandkids this is the route that we could go down the I don't want her coming round because she's a pain in the blinking backside. She winds me up. It's me or her. Who wants to hear that conversation? Not me.

SPEAKER_01: 31:54

Yeah, you're right. So the mother-in-law sim came about, like all brilliant ideas, almost by accident. So... I was doing a business challenge to come up with an idea that I wasn't currently using in my business, but that I was uniquely qualified to explore. And I was sitting there going, oh, I don't know. I can't think of it. And the doorbell rang and it was the postman. And he had delivered this beautiful box of books. flowers completely unexpected from one of my son and daughter-in-laws and the card said thank you um we think you're awesome um you keep our heads on when we're about to lose them uh and we just want you to know how much we appreciate you um so thank you for all your support and for being there and um you know, catching our heads as they roll. Or before they roll. And it was such a, it was so unexpected and it was lovely. And I suddenly thought, there it is. Mother-in-law-some. And that's the truth of how it started. And then I did some research about what was out there to support people. There's very little. And then I thought, well, if there's very little out there to support people, is it because it isn't a thing? So I spoke to... people who work in relationship couples coaching you speak to a wedding planner as well I spoke to wedding planners I spoke to people who were all sorts of random people who deal with mother-in-laws

SPEAKER_00: 33:57

a lot yeah

SPEAKER_01: 33:57

in that in that you know in that relationship and all of them said oh my goodness it's it's a huge problem and then I looked at research that said that you know about 75 percent of people feel that there there's an issue in their in that in-law relationship that can be tricky to handle. And then I looked at the fact that with blended families, actually it gets more complicated because you might you might get two mother-in-laws if you if you marry somebody whose parents both divorced and remarried and of course when you say to somebody you might have two mother-in-laws their faces don't light up with joy they kind of go oh no um and that again is the stereotype isn't it not one mother-in-law but two um If you have had a wonderful, you know, if your experience of in-lawing has been positive, you might think, wow, that's fabulous. I get double bang for my buck, you know. But often people's first reaction is double trouble as opposed to. But

SPEAKER_00: 35:11

also competition between mother-in-laws. Yeah. Because I'd want to be the best mother-in-law, you see.

UNKNOWN: 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:19

There it is. That's that comparisonitis. You see, it sneaks in. Oh, it does. It sneaks in really quickly. I want to be the cool one. All of those things. And it's really, you know, and that the danger in, I know my child best. You know, I'm the person who knows them best. Well, maybe, but maybe not. And actually, I think what is most helpful is understanding how well you know yourself. We all have tendencies, don't we? We have tendencies that serve as well and we have tendencies that get in our way. And so I think that the ability to know yourself is really, really important. And that's where we start because it's really easy. I was in a meeting the other day and a mother said to me, well, it's not the mother-in-laws I think you need to concentrate on. It's the children. Because they just need to do as they're told. And I was like, do you know, the thing is when you're pointing the finger at somebody else, which is really easy to do that, isn't it? Let's point the finger. There are three fingers pointing back to yourself. So it's like asking the question, not judging, but asking, being curious, asking the question, how am I contributing to whatever the issue is? Because sure as eggs is eggs, you will be contributing in some way, shape or form. And whether that's a positive or not so positive contribution, it's worth asking the question.

SPEAKER_00: 37:08

I think that's a fabulous first top tip because I say it all begins with our self-awareness because that, as we've been talking a lot about self-worth and how lack of self-worth can fuel our, oh my goodness, they're not giving us enough attention, they don't care what we think, they've hurt our feelings. And then, as you say, letting that resentment boil up and the relationship then in danger of crumbling, really, because it is a real danger. And like we know, I just threw out there about not being able to see your grandkids if you're lucky enough to have them. But these are situations, aren't they, that can happen if we don't... I mean, conversations, would you put that up there as one of your top tips, having the conversations? Having...

SPEAKER_01: 37:54

Having the, go to the source. So that's the person, go to the person directly. So not an email, not a text, not a WhatsApp, not a voice note. Make time when it suits both of you to actually have that conversation and go with an open mind and an open heart and open ears and often a closed mouth. Sometimes what do

SPEAKER_00: 38:25

they say? Two

SPEAKER_01: 38:26

ears

SPEAKER_00: 38:26

and one

SPEAKER_01: 38:27

mouth. Yeah. Yeah. And I think sometimes when you're the need to be right. Can override that they're listening. So you you if you're not listening, if you're listening to respond to get your point across, you're not really listening at all. if you're listening to understand, it's about parking your perspective and listening to theirs and really listening to their perspective. So you might think that rearranging their kitchen cupboard when you're dog sitting was really helpful. Actually, that their interpretation might be that you are controlling areas that don't belong to you. How they have their kitchen cupboards is up to them, not to you. So you know, a perfect example of don't do that.

SPEAKER_00: 39:31

Please don't do that. And it's the whole idea of being critical of how they're living their lives and saying the way they're doing it is not the right way. Or even, heaven forbid, implying that they're messy and disorganised and hence, you know, where does that, that's going down a whole avenue we do not want to go down, do we?

UNKNOWN: 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 39:51

we could spend a whole day talking about all of the issues there are there are many issues often arising from different different traditions different beliefs different cultures different perspectives different experiences and so having those conversations about what's your experience and understanding that there isn't necessarily one right or one wrong there are many There are many experience and many perspectives. They're just different, just different. And is your need to be right, to prove a point, getting in the way of a really good conversation and a really good relationship? Because you're right, in extreme, with a lack of conversation and lack of understanding, then that kind of separation and worst case, alienation, you know, is all too real. And it's incredibly, incredibly sad.

SPEAKER_00: 40:51

No, I love that. I think that's a really positive note to leave your top tips on because I say there is no right or wrong with so many things. I mean, before, obviously, we're going to share your contact details after I've asked you your three questions, because I know there's going to be lots of fabulous women and maybe some father-in-laws to be or father-in-laws that would like to get in touch as well, because we're all about helping everyone. And I say the father-in-law role then comes into play. That's another conversation altogether, isn't it? But do you think, just as saying, there is no, like with so many things, there's no rule book, there's no right or wrong. It's actually being aware and being open, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 41:33

There are, yeah, there are some guiding, what I call guiding principles, guiding principles that help us have really healthy relationships. And that's about self-awareness, having the conversations and And clarity. Clarity is kind. Understanding boundaries, both people's boundaries, everybody's boundaries. We all have them. And when those boundaries are blurred and not clear, it makes it easy to fall over them. I'm looking forward to it now.

SPEAKER_00: 42:06

I'm slightly... It's not something I feel fearful about. It's just something that, as you said, you know, I have a very strong... relationship with my son and like you were saying about your relationship with your son people do comment oh you two are really close etc so it will be that whole letting go and finding my place and owning my place I think and rejoicing in your place

SPEAKER_01: 42:35

yeah I think that's the thing is For me, being a mother-in-law-some is celebrating the role, giving yourself space, owning it and relaxing into it. My invitation is what I want people to have is that graceful, respectful, joyous, glorious relationship where they can celebrate their lives. offsprings partners and as I said there's enough love to go around and gosh if ever the world needs more love and respect it's now and I often say that that you know the mother-in-law some isn't it doesn't matter how you came to that role it is the role not the you know we're not we're not you we're not tightening it to just women. It's that in-law relationship that is so important. And that however you came to be an in-law, then actually... my my wish my you know my dream for all for all of us is that it's a positive growing relationship that we're really proud of and proud to be part of that enhances everybody who's in it. Oh

SPEAKER_00: 44:00

I love that I love that and I'm delighted that you've been here sharing this today because it's something that I'm really excited about and it's a conversation that needs to be kept going and when we've go on through your three questions. I'm quite excited about as well. We will be giving all your contact details. So stay listening, but stay listening because you won't want to miss anything. jenny's three answers to the same three questions that i ask each of my fabulous female guests each week so drum roll please the first question we will be asking is what is your midlife anthem the piece of music that fires you up that when you hear it you're like yes today's gonna be a good day do

SPEAKER_01: 44:43

you know it's um It's a beautiful, beautiful, it's quite a gentle, it's a gentle song with a really punchy message. And it's I Hope You Dance by Leanne Womack.

SPEAKER_00: 44:57

Oh, my goodness. Don't. It makes me, it gets me. Makes me cry

SPEAKER_01: 45:02

every time. Yeah. And because the opening line is, I hope you never lose your sense of wonder. And that's kind of what we're talking about, isn't it? Oh, I'm all goose bumpy. It talks about faith and love and just the power of the universe. But it also has the background of it is the time in constant motion. It talks about time. And we talked right at the beginning about that. we evolve, we evolve as people, we evolve as women, we evolve in all the roles that we take on. And so it's, for me, when you said anthem, I thought, oh, no, I'm just going to have it anyway. No,

SPEAKER_00: 45:48

no, no. It's mine. Anthems don't have to be, there are no rules. They don't have to be big and loud. And I find that really interesting that you've chosen it and our topic, because whenever I hear it, which is not enough, actually, I'm going to download it somewhere. It always strikes me, and that's why it really hits me, I think, as a mother talking to her child. And I don't know if that's how it was written, but it always strikes me as, you know, when you have the choice to sit it out or I've got to move on. Sorry, Jenny, I'm going to start blubbing. No,

SPEAKER_01: 46:21

no, because I'll cry too. So there you go. That's power,

SPEAKER_00: 46:26

isn't it? Tissues at the ready. Number two, crying in a really loving, powerful way, because I just, I'm all about the words what is your midlife mantra there

SPEAKER_01: 46:37

beat that beat your anthem um well it has it is actually build bridges not barriers it's my it's my uh it's my mantra um i have a few mantras um um curiosity not judgment but the building bridges is is that recognition that it takes effort and intention to make relationships. And that we, again, we're always in choice whether we're, whether we're building a bridge or whether we're building a barrier.

SPEAKER_00: 47:13

No, that is so true. And empowering as well, because they say, you know, I love that you set your, your intentional mood for the day. And it is all about being self-aware and saying, right, come on, Jenny, come on, Kate, we're in control here. Don't give our power away to anyone else. Don't let the buggers drag us down. Let's do this. So when you put this all together, you might be already writing this. I don't know. You might be about to plug something. What is the title of your autobiography?

SPEAKER_01: 47:48

Loving and Letting Go, The Sacred Dance of Reclaimed Brilliance. Ooh.

UNKNOWN: 47:57

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01: 47:58

I like that. And when's it out? Well, I have written it, the first volume. But at the moment, I'm doing a trilogy of three micro books about mother-in-law-somes. So the first one is from the perspective of the mother-in-law, the mother-in-law-some. The second is from the daughter, son-in-law perspective. And the third one is about all of those transitions, those periods in time that potentially are a bit tricky. So transitions, so things like leaving, you know, leaving home, getting new jobs, changing where you live, Christmases. births of children or not whether you choose to have children or not all of those all of those things what happens when you're you know if um if you separate and divorce and then you have to maintain or do you maintain a relationship with your ex-in-laws in order for the sake of the children all of those so it's the third volume is about tricky transitions so they're micro books so they're short top tips to the point um so So when I finished those three, the first one will be finished. Well, I hope the draft will be finished next week. When I finished the micro book series, then I'll go back to my brilliance, my autobiography.

SPEAKER_00: 49:38

Fantastic. Well, that leads beautifully on to then how obviously all your details are in the show notes for our episode and in your guest profile on the Midlife Unlimited podcast website link in the show notes. But verbally talk us through how the wonderful women and men listening can get in touch with you.

SPEAKER_01: 50:01

They can find me on all of the socials. So I'm The Mother in Lawsome on TikTok. Fancy me being on TikTok. There you go. Who knew? I'm on LinkedIn. I am on Facebook. There is a free Facebook group called The Mother in Lawsome Lounge that people are very welcome to join, which is a free community where we share tips, have conversations. generally um a safe space to uh to talk about stuff um and i'm available on email jenny at genuine consulting.com spelt with a j i was gonna say spelt with a j everyone spelt with a j um um pun loving that's me um the mother-in-law some uh info at the mother-in-law some.com is also um a new domain, which I'm just taking over. So I'm easy to get hold of. Welcome DMs, conversations, telephone calls. So please get in touch. I'd love to hear from

SPEAKER_00: 51:13

you. It's all about the conversations, isn't it? Oh, that's wonderful. And listeners, I'd love your feedback on today's episode. I've loved it. So I hope you have too. So it'd be fabulous if you'd leave a review and you can email me or text me via the link in the show notes and come and join the Midlife Unlimited podcast Facebook group link in the show notes where you'll find to the website link with details of my exclusive VIP Midlife Metamorphosis coaching offers. So thank you for joining me today, Jenny. It's been an absolute pleasure. And thank you for listening. I look forward to tuning in next week. Don't forget Midlife Unlimited has a new episode every Thursday available wherever you listen to your podcasts. So here's to being fabulous and flourishing together and living Midlife Unlimited. Thanks, Jenny. It's been fabulous.

SPEAKER_01: 52:08

Thank you so much, Kate. I've had the best time.

SPEAKER_00: 52:11

Bye.