Episode #053 How to Date Again as a Midlife Woman with Guest Eimear Draper

With the Christmas countdown looming, and party season too, are you dreading spending your first Yuletide alone in a long time?

If you are worrying about being single this festive season, but the thought of joining the Midlife dating scene is scaring the big girl pants off you, then this is the episode for you.

I’m delighted to be joined by my guest Eimear Draper, dating coach, founder of Kindling Dating and Platinum Magazine’s dating expert to talk about How to Date Again as a Midlife Woman.

Both Eimear and I met our partners via online dating, and I loved her energy when we met IRL through previous Midlife Unlimited® guest Amanda FitzGerald. So Eimear was the obvious choice of dating coach to join me for this rather timely episode.

There’s no sugar coating, as Eimear and I strip back stereotypes, bust those myths and get to the warts-and-all reality of dating again at this pivotal time of life.

From equating online dating to lead generation, via how to have the dating conversation with your kids and friends, to explaining how rejection is merely part of the dating process, Eimear shares her insights and expertise as we discuss how to avoid overwhelm when exploring the world of dating as a Midlife woman.

And don’t miss Eimear’s top tips for how to take those first steps towards getting that first date. 

Connect with Eimear

https://kindlingdating.com/

https://www.instagram.com/kindling_dating/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm your host, Kate Porter, the Midlife Metamorphosis Coach, and I know what it's like to feel stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in the mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know you are not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and put up with it. You don't have to play it safe. Midlife Unlimited is all about ripping off that mask and telling Midlife how it really is. Nothing is off limits because together there's no limit to what we can achieve. So, welcome to today's episode. Now, with the Christmas countdown, yes, I said Christmas countdown looming and the party season two, are you dreading spending your first Christmas alone in a long time? If you're worrying about being single this Christmas, but the thought of joining the midlife dating scene is scaring the big girl pants off you, then this is the episode just for you. Because I'm calling in the expert. I'm delighted to be joined by Ema Draper, dating coach, founder of Kindling Dating, and Platinum Magazine's dating expert, to talk about how to date again as a midlife woman. So welcome, Ema. It's fabulous to have you here. Thank you. Very happy to be here. Now, initially I thought, oh, I'll save our episode until Christmas and talk about, you know, party season. I thought, well, no, that's a bit daft because we're all about taking perfectly imperfect action. But to take action, you need to put a bit of a plan in place, don't you? So I thought, well, late October's a good time to start thinking about it. And we do, we do need to take action, don't we? These are things that if the time is right and it's not right for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with being single either. That's not the message that we're putting out, is it? It's about deciding what's right for you, and then it's all about tools of the trade, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 2:16

Um yeah, and I think like your point there of starting even though we don't feel perfect, and putting a little bit of prep work in, it does start with with you, and it starts, it's in you know, that phrase love is an inside job, and it's so true because I think there's so much noise and negativity around dating out there that we can just get caught up in like, oh sh I have to do online and I don't want to do online. I'm terrified of doing online, but do I have to do it? And which one will I do? And how much do I pay? And what do I take a picture of? And blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And we just get stuck, and actually, it's about going back inward and saying, Well, what do you want? And do you believe that you deserve it? Um, and that's that's the real work, and we can end up avoiding it because we have all this other distractions going on. Um but yeah, I do think that's that's the real work, and now is a great time to do it because as you alluded to at Christmas party season, there's lots of opportunities to meet people. Um and generally in the world now, I think we're in this kind of scarcity mindset, and it feels like nobody meets anyone in real life anymore. But if you have done some internal work where you're just like confident that you're gonna get what you want, you know what you want, your self-esteem is good, you can walk into any room and just be magnetic because people love that energy of internal confidence.

SPEAKER_00: 3:47

Oh, ooh, I love that. And I'm really excited because later on you're gonna be sharing your your top tips for well, obviously, most of our listeners are ladies, um, but we do get men as well. So I'm pretty sure that you know, with a bit of tweaking, the tips will may well apply to you gents as well. But but before we deep I put my teeth in before I'm so excited. I mean, I I alluded, you know, in in the intro that now's a time when so many of us may be facing our first Christmas alone for a long time. And this can be for so many reasons, can't it? And there's yeah, there's there's no typical case, it could be empty nesting, which is a huge, huge thing. It could be breakdown of a previous relationship, bereavement, relocation. And and as you said, and I think this is so important, there's no right or wrong, there's no rush, and you never but on the flip side, I think it's like with so many things waiting till you feel ready, you can spend a long nah. You're never gonna feel ready.

SPEAKER_01: 4:53

It's like with anything, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, dating is essentially putting yourself out there, asking somebody to like you, knowing full well that you're gonna hit rejection. And the rejection is part of the process, and it's right that that happens as well because you're only looking for one person, so that means there has to be a screening element to it. There will be people you reject, there's people that reject you. Um, but we kind of go in this like, oh, I need to be ready, I need to be ready. And I was like, Well, no, because your body's never gonna want you to do that. Like your brain is built to keep you safe, and safety is on your sofa in your comfort zone, living vicariously through whatever romance you want to watch on Netflix. Um, but that's not gonna get you what you want.

SPEAKER_00: 5:37

No, I see we talk about comfort zone so much, don't we, nowadays? It's become one of those buzzwords, yeah. And as as you just said, you know, the whole idea of sitting on the sofa swipey swipy, which I understand now is I mean, I met my partner on match.com. I met mine on Tinder. Yeah. So match.com, I mean, this is that was literally sending messages and then waiting days to hear back from them. So, but the whole idea of swiping is alien to me. But I can imagine now, I'm just thinking there's gonna be women listening that met their partner at university or college, you know, in their teens, even. And now, all these decades on, they find themselves on their own for so many reasons, different so there's there's no stereotypical reason. But the whole idea of dating again in this new online landscape, it's like another planet, isn't it? I think it can definitely feel like it.

SPEAKER_01: 6:38

Um, and I I think it can feel intimidating, um, but actually it's like the kind of I think it was a Tinder study actually said that the demographic that was doing best on online dating was over 55s because they're just authentic. There's no like filters on your your pictures, there's no kind of pretending you're something that you're not on your profile to attract people. I think there's just a lovely honesty when you get to this age that you're just like, do you know what? Fuck it. I am who I am, take me as I am, and the right person is gonna love me for that. Um, so I I think there's no reason to feel intimidated, um, though it can feel like, oh god, I don't know what to do. So just a few tips to get you started, and then just go be yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 7:26

Um, I'm sorry, I just talked to everybody. That is fantastic to hear though, because I I think a lot of the potential stumbling blocks must come around from even even if you're confident in yourself, it is quite a judgy situation to put yourself into, isn't it? But I love what we were chatting before. You were actually saying that us midlife women we we we don't really give a fuck now, do we? Basically. To be to be blunt listeners, or at least you shouldn't.

SPEAKER_01: 8:04

No, no, yeah, yeah. I think like I I um I don't know, I look back at me dating in my twenties, and I was single from the whole decade of my twenties, and God, I was so insecure. And all of my thinking was like, Oh, I want them to like me, want them to like me. And I was never stopping to ask, Well, do I like them? Um, and I think that's kind of done away with when you get into your midlife era. Um, and I think that there's a real power in that actually.

SPEAKER_00: 8:33

And I think as well, it's perhaps knowing, and as you said, it's so important to do a bit of work on yourself first to understand your why. Why are you going into this? Because it is a potential, I won't say minefield necessarily, but it it's you're gonna be putting yourself through some peaks and troughs, shall we say, because not everyone's in it for the right re or not, no, I won't say the right reasons, not everyone's in it for the same reason that you are. Yeah, exactly. I would have thought. I mean, I say I sound like I'm speaking from experience, my experience goes way back, but even then when I was online dating, there was oh I don't, you know, people say wanting to meet up for reasons that didn't just involve a cup of coffee, shall we say? Yeah. And it's it's how how do you or is there not a way? Is there is it understanding the lingo? Are there certain phrases that I mean, obviously you're going to be given advice and tips later, but I'm intrigued. If someone sends you a message and says, Oh, would you like to go for coffee? Does coffee mean coffee? Does coffee mean yeah, coffee? Coffee means to get into my pants, no, in which case, what kind of pants do I wear these days?

SPEAKER_01: 9:46

No, I think this is where we can kind of go into overthinking, and yes, absolutely there's bad behavior out there. Um, I like to think that we're now in a space where you know there's not as much judgment around casual flings, about physical for the sake of I just want physical. Um, so I feel like people are more open about that. So on your profile, you can say, I'm looking for a long-term committed relationship or monogamous. Um, you know, some of the apps literally have so many different fields that you can pick of, you know, looking for long, open to casual, looking for casual, open to long, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:25

That's so much better though.

SPEAKER_01: 10:26

That because yeah, the honesty is good, right?

SPEAKER_00: 10:29

Yeah, absolutely. Because if we want to play, let's play. If we're looking for something different, oh gosh, I know that that's good to hear. And see, I didn't well, why would I know that? I haven't been online dating recently. But these are all things that the women listening might be thinking, well, hang on a minute. How do I you know it's all about aligning, isn't it? About values, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 10:50

And I do think like you can come in with these perceptions, you know, like everyone will say Tinder is just for hookups, and you know, yeah, definitely there's people on there that are looking for hookups, but it's also the one that has the most men on. So it's got 80% men. So actually, your odds are probably quite good as a woman. As a man, I suggest you go to a different app. Um, and yeah, I mentioned I met my husband through Tinder, and when we were messaging, for whatever reason, my cans got got can plans got canceled. We had scheduled date for like two weeks' time, and then my plans got cancelled, and I was like, Oh my god, I've ended up a home on my own anyway, because my friends cancelled. I'm just having a a glass of wine on the sofa, and he was like, Oh, me too, let's share one. And I was like, Oh my god, he's inviting himself around. How dare he? He was not, and I calmed down and I was like, Okay, just give him a chance. And I sent a message back and I was like, Yeah, sure, we can share a bottle in a pub. Uh, and then straight away he was like, Oh, this tube stop looks like it's halfway for both of us. How long will it take you to get there? See you there. Um, we had a lovely date. I've since learned he's like, I absolutely would never do that, like invite myself around to somebody's place. I'm not into that whole Netflix and chill vibe. Um, but because I had that perception of what Tinder could be like, I was judging him. Yeah. And and we do that. If you're coming into it going, oh, you know, people are just looking for casual, then we're gonna paint everyone with that broad brush, and actually that's your mindset and your perception of reality. And I do think most people are genuine and just take them at face value rather than trying to decipher everything means everything kind of thing.

unknown: 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:34

That makes sense. Absolutely. Because you're almost putting up walls that don't need to be put up, aren't you? I mean, the boundaries are important, absolutely. And I love what you're saying about being clear on on why you want to do this, what it is. Because as we as we said at the very start, there are so many myths and stereotypes about oh, look at her. Oh dear, you're alone now. Oh no, don't worry, you'll meet someone else. Well, you may not want to. You might actually want to think, right, I'm in my 50s, 40s, 60s. This is the first time I've been single since I was 17, 25. Why not take some actual time now as an early Christmas present to yourself and actually get to know yourself a bit more? What do you actually like now? Because that'll perhaps put you in better stead when you think we won't say ready, but when you start thinking, yeah, let's start exploring this dating scene.

SPEAKER_01: 13:34

Yeah, and I think it can feel like you sometimes uh get pressure to rush into that next relationship because, like, let's say if you're the only one that's single, like let's say you know, your circle of friends are all in couples, and suddenly either through a relationship breakup or a widowhood, you're like the single woman, and people get a bit funny about it. And oh yeah, I can imagine it can feel like society is like built for two people, and it's harder to you know socialize with the friends you used to socialize to you know, you might even feel like you're not invited to things anymore because they're like, Oh, well, we don't know where to put the the one that's on the I was gonna say that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:12

Do you do you obviously? I mean, I've I should have said at the outset, do you work with men and women? Yes, they do, yeah. Yeah. So it in the people that well, I say there's no generalization, but do women come to you for that very reason that they feel now they're almost missing out on the social scene, not just by not dating, but by because they are on their own, they are perceived now as not necessarily a threat, but kind of an awkward plus one. What do we do with Jennifer now that you know we're having a dinner party? Do we want an odd number? Oh well, no, you know, she's on her own, we won't invite her. Um, I think it definitely comes up for people.

SPEAKER_01: 14:58

Um, but a lot of my clients have have been single for a while and they will almost have, you know, built this life where it's like, I'm fine on my own, I'm fine on my own. Um, and when those feelings of loneliness come up, they they squash them down and kind of say, nope, I'm okay, keep busy, keep busy. Um, and then there's you know, little ref reflection points that go, actually, it would be nice to have a partner. Um, and big occasions like Christmas can be that that brings it up of like, you know, I've done I've done life on my own for however many years, and actually each Christmas is a bit tough because I don't know, you might have family around for the the main day, but then everyone goes back to their boxes and you have this whole week in between Christmas and New Year to fill, um, or New Year's Eve can be quite quite a moment as well of like it's all about setting plans and oh I bloody hate New Year's Eve at the best of times, but no, absolutely and another kind of inflection point I think for people is you mentioned empty empty nesting earlier, of like, particularly as women, I think we put so much into our kids. And if your relationship broke down and you were so focused on making sure they're okay, and then suddenly you get to a point where like actually they're getting quite independent, and now my nights are a bit quiet, and maybe it would be nice to have somebody sitting beside me on this sofa. Um, and I've kind of lost track of what your original question was, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:28

No, what I was gonna say as well, taking on taking empty nest even a step further. Um, when your kids have a new partner, serious partner in their life, and Christmas, for example, can almost be a kind of one for you and one for their family, so you might actually find yourself just sitting there with a mince pie and a ready meal for one Christmas dinner, and that in itself can be well quite a scary thought. I mean, I'm not in that situation, but any one of us could be in that situation for any number of reasons. You know, there's no there's no warning. Now, another thing that before we go into your top tips, but also I'd like to dig a bit more into your how you came to be a dating coach, but something that just struck me that could be a a potential stumbling block as well, particularly if you're single due to divorce or bereavement is what sprung to mind. Actually telling your kids, yeah, friends that that you're thinking about dating again.

SPEAKER_01: 17:32

Yeah, yeah. Um and I think it's definitely one that you know, with kids it's a bit more delicate, you want to tread a bit more carefully, and friends. I think I think we'd probably like to think that all of our friends will be supportive and that we can be open with them about that, but sometimes you have to be careful about the friends that you do talk to. Um, because what I see quite often is you know, kind of a bit judgment or a bit of like, oh, we'll live vicariously through you and tell us all your funny dating stories, and then you become that like classic Bridget Jones entertainment at the dinner party, and it's like that's not fun for anyone. Um and also what I see sometimes is I and this is a tricky one to navigate, it's like if you actually have single friends, they they want the best for you, but they also they don't want to be the last one left. So in a kind of subconscious way, they can end up sabotaging you a little bit. So you do need to be careful sometimes of who you talk to about, what's going on in your dating life. Um, and again, because there's all that negativity around it, like yes, it feels great to sit around with a glass of wine and your friends and have a good old bitch about how bad it is and how bad things the dating apps are, and haha, look at this profile, but it's not it's not a nice energy to create and actually step out of that. Um, and then back to the kids, I think openness, just open communication, let them lead the pace a little bit, but also you are the adult, and you know, there might be a bit of jealousy, they might not want you dating, but I do think there's an element of it feels like you're being selfish, but actually you're probably doing the right thing for them because what you model is what they'll follow. And do you want your kids to see that you give you know everything to everybody else and never had time for you or never got the thing that you wanted or the support that you needed because you were too busy worrying about everybody else's being okay? And like you know, I've got two little daughters, and I look at them and I'm like, Well, I won't want them to do that in their life. I would want them to know love and happiness and somebody that has their back and not to feel alone. So I have to model that for them to know that that's how they can live their life. Um, and another kind of way of looking at it as well is like again, it can feel like selfishness that you're going out and dating and trying to find a partner, but when they get to 20s, 30s, like you said, have their own partner or building their own life, you don't want them worrying about you on your own.

SPEAKER_00: 20:11

Well, I was gonna say, in theory, you know, a lot of this could be again us thinking, oh, I can't tell them because they'd be upset. Well, at least give them the opportunity to be upset then.

SPEAKER_01: 20:23

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 20:24

Give, give, have the conversation, and it's hard. I'm not saying it's easy. Having the conversation can be it's it's far easier to sit there going, putting it off and procrastinating. But then what we do, we we get overwhelmed by it, we catastrophize it, we turn it into, oh my goodness, it's going to end up in tears, it's gonna end up with them storming out, it's gonna and face it, let's do it. And as you said, I think it's really, really true there that them almost not peace of mind, because you know, we'll be perfectly all right on our own if that's the choice that we make, whether it's thrust upon us or we just don't meet someone, because there's no guarantee you're gonna meet someone, no, but at least by exploring it, you find out if it's right for you, you find out if there's someone else out there you could actually bear to spend some time with. But as you say, it does take well, not it sounds awful, but takes the pressure off your kids a bit, worrying about mum or dad sitting on their own waiting for the phone to ring. I mean, these are the worst stereotypes possible, but it's all things to talk about, you say, and yeah, hopefully laugh about as well, because I think we can we can be doom demons, if that's a phrase.

SPEAKER_01: 21:39

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Um and I I think that's kind of how our minds work a little bit, right? Like they're there to protect us, so they're constantly looking for danger and looking for what might hurt us. Um and datings and relationships, that is like if there's any blueprint in your brain that a relationship led to hurt, then it's just gonna find all the possible excuses for you not to go there.

SPEAKER_00: 22:02

We mentioned Netflix nights in with Netflix earlier, but I'm a bit of a Netflix fiend, I'm afraid. And you you've only it might just be my algorithm, but you've only got to go in there and it's like, oh, from dating to death. How I met my murderer. And it's like, yes, there are yeah, but it's like with anything, isn't it? I mean, dating is not is not the only time that we have to be quite careful with how we share our information and and who we tell. And um, I don't know, you know, obviously we're gonna be di digging into your top tips in a bit, but um being careful and letting people know where we're going. Uh I would have thought I won't say common sense because if you've not done it before or you've not done it for a while, it's not necessarily common sense, is it?

SPEAKER_01: 22:47

No, I suppose um, you know, sometimes we can we can feel like we're you know super independent and we're all fine on our own. But actually, yes, it is sensible to let somebody know, hey, I'm gonna undate, I'm gonna be here, and expect to hear from me by this time. And if you don't, call me.

SPEAKER_00: 23:05

No, just you know, on the same strain though, if you go for a long walk with the dog across the fields to an area you've not been before, it would be rather sensible to tell someone then where you're going and how you know so yeah, I suppose, yeah, perhaps a new word for common sense dating sense, dating sense. Now, before we go into your top tips per se, I'd love to know a bit more because we've alluded to how you met your husband, but how did you become a dating coach? What was I I can tell that you you just love everything about it. So, what what made you think, yeah, finding love, helping other people finding love? That's that's my passion, that's my special thing.

SPEAKER_01: 23:49

Uh, very much so through personal experience. Uh, because like I said, I spent well over a decade single. Um, and I thought I was doing all the dating, um, but also I was, you know, saying I'm fine on my own and I'm focusing on my career because I didn't want the disappointment of being on my own to show. Um, and actually, I didn't realize I had built up so many walls through that process of like not wanting to show my disappointment to anyone. So it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like I would go on dates and not let my guard down, so then it would not go anywhere. Um, and it wasn't until I got into a relationship that I probably shouldn't have been in that I saw, oh, actually, I do like to be in a relationship, and actually, it is quite nice to have somebody in my life, and maybe I should put some effort into that. Um, and how I essentially said to myself, I was like, when that broke up, I was like, right, I need to find somebody before I put the walls back up again. Um, so I basically project managed myself through online dating, and then I, after about 18 months, met my husband. Um, and then it was I just kind of had this thought of like, you know, I found dating hard, but as women I think we can often get together and blame it on the men. Um and then I saw from his perspective that it was really hard for men, and I saw some of his friends and brothers as well, you know, having the same challenges, and then I was like, what is going on? Like, why are people getting so stuck?

SPEAKER_00: 25:13

And it's just similar things. I mean, I don't want to be sexist in terms of men versus women, but yeah, are there similar stumbling blocks? Um, not similar, but not quite.

SPEAKER_01: 25:26

Um, so from my work with clients, what I see is women can get a bit stuck in our heads. So we will have a story that we tell ourselves of why we're single, and it's almost like we then just keep on fighting evidence to back up that story. Um, and then we can't break out of it. Whereas men, I think the biggest thing is rejection. And actually, I think online dating has given them years of quite aggressive rejection. Like it used to be you you know, shoot your shot, go talk to somebody in a bar, all our friends would probably laugh at you, you'd go back to your mates and they go, Oh, burn, and you were the butt of a joke for 10 minutes, and then you got over it, you maybe tried somebody else in the next bar, and that was it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:11

Shocking the joys of shocking, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:14

But that was it. Now you're at home and you're swiping through and sending messages in what should be your safe space and not getting anything back. Like the numbers are definitely that w women swipe yes to less profiles than men do, are not as proactive at making the first approach as men are, because we still expect them to do the first approach, which is bonkers, it's 21st century.

SPEAKER_00: 26:40

Uh we're still expecting chivalry.

SPEAKER_01: 26:43

Well, no, I don't think it's chivalry. Like, I think it's right to expect chivalry if that's what you like, but it through online dating to expect that oh well he doesn't really like me unless he sends the first message or unless he's why I think I used the wrong word. Yes, yeah, kind of it yeah, it's kind of like putting all the onus on on the guys and actually not appreciating that for them they are swiping through or swiping yes to hundreds and hundreds of profiles and getting nothing back. So, of course, their self-esteem has taken a knock and their confidence is taking a knock. Um, so yeah, for my work with clients, it's kind of to tends to be slightly different approaches of like the fundamentals are the same of no you want to believe and you can have it, believing in yourself. But for women, quite often there's a story that they're telling themselves, and that's the work that we have to do. Uh, whereas men, it's more by strategies to make meeting people easier um and building up their confidence and getting them out to events to be like actually, you can't just rely on online, you have to get out to events and meet people as well. And then the two kind of work in the ecosystem of if you get out when you chat to somebody, it gives you a boost, and then you've nicer energy when you're in the online messaging space. Um and you know, maybe if you do get into a nice little flirty banter online, that gives you more confidence when you do walk into a bar, so you know the two kind of work together. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:11

No, I love that. I mean, would you say that was your first piece of advice then? Do online but go out as well.

SPEAKER_01: 28:17

Uh yeah, so I always I always say it's a bit like a three-legged stool, and you want to do all three three elements. So one is do online, it opens up a bigger pool. But you know, be in a right headspace, there's no point doing it if you think online doesn't work, or if you think online is just full of people that want casual relationships, that's what you're going to give yourself. Um, then yeah, get out to events, whether that's singles events, which are really increasing in popularity, um, or it's just anything that opens up your social circle. You know, if it's going to the theatre on your own, or it's going to a party that you might necessarily have said yes to that invite before. Um, if it's taking up a new hobby, whatever it is, that it's just broadening your social circles and getting you face to face with more people. And then, you know, when you're there, do talk to people. Don't get a wallflower and just hang out by the the door, being like, Oh god, I'm terrified of being here. Like, you know, go in and own the room and talk to whoever you can. Um, and then the third one is use your network. So do tell friends and family that you're looking for something, somebody. And I think quite often we we can be quite guarded, and you know, if anybody asks, Oh, you know, how's your love life going? You go, Oh, fine, I'm grand, I'm on my own, don't need anybody. And it's such a closed like wall, basically. Whereas if you could replace that with, like, oh, you know, it's quite tough trying to meet people, but I'd love to meet somebody. I'm open to you setting me up on a date. Um, it's just a completely different energy.

SPEAKER_00: 29:41

Yeah, I love that because as you say, you kind of think, Oh, I'm embarrassed to let people know that I'm you know putting myself out there. Yeah, but by I would have thought by and large, people would be rooting for you, and not just for the reasons we mentioned earlier about waiting for you to hear your funny stories about a dates you. From hell. But no, you know, and you you never you never know who might be there.

SPEAKER_01: 30:06

Yeah. And it and it, you know, ideally it'd be amazing if somebody went home and said it to their friend and their friend had a brother, and off we go, we set them up on a blind date, and that's a lovely meat cute. But I even if that doesn't happen, I just think the openness and the energy that you're putting out into the universe of I'd love to meet somebody and I'd love some help with it is just so much nicer. And surely the universe will reward it.

SPEAKER_00: 30:34

But I think you then give off the vibes as well, don't you? You're giving off the vibes of being approachable. And I don't just mean approachable in a sexy way, I mean approachable as in people like you just give the vibes that you're be a nice person to come and chat to. And again, who knows where that conversation may lead. And at the end of the day, depending on what you're looking for from a a new relationship, if you you might decide that you're actually a friendship might be good for now. And exactly, you know, forget when Harry met Sally. I think we can start re-evaluating friendships and what we want from a friendship. And I do think from midlife onwards, we can have a friendship where we're not constantly worrying about whether we're trying to bonk each other. Or that's a that's age me saying that, isn't it? Bonking. But you know, there can be affection and there can be, you know, whether it's holding hands and hugging, and it doesn't have to be a full-blown sexual friend or sexual relationship. You can still have a relationship and be together.

SPEAKER_01: 31:41

Yeah, yeah. And the other way around as well, you could meet somebody that you're like, I know I ever want to live with this person, but I quite like enjoy a bit of sex with them every now and again. Yeah. And that's why. Um and another thing that I think is really great about dating at this age is you don't have to follow those stereotypical, you know, stepping stones of like, oh, you know, we must be committed and then you must get engaged, and then you must move in together, and then you must have kids. Like, like you can just do whatever works for you. If it works for you to date somebody and it's a long-term committed relationship, but you only see each other on weekends and you go on holidays, and you don't have to fight over who stacks the dishwasher, then that's quite nice.

SPEAKER_00: 32:22

It's it's not worrying about putting labels on it anymore, either, is it? Is that the whole thing of has he asked me to be his girlfriend yet? Or I mean nowadays it's like you know, the multiple dating and it's like, oh my goodness me, goodness me. But a phrase that you use when you were chatting before that you say you use a lot with your clients, is that the right word? The people the women that or men you work with, it's not you, it's them. Because we can, and I don't mean that in a judgy way, but if someone hasn't put the effort in, yeah, and they turn up to a date looking less than you know, and we we we we can spend hours overthinking what we're gonna wear, etc. And perhaps we'll dig into that, your your advice for that. But if if they look a bit scruffy, that that's not a reflection on us, is it?

SPEAKER_01: 33:12

No, no, and so much we do take as a reflection on us. So, like I had a beautiful client who if a guy turned up not clean-shaven or not iron shirt, she was like, Oh, he couldn't be bothered to put in the effort for me. It's because of my weight, it's because he thinks I'm not good enough and he can find a prettier, thinner woman. And I was like, I don't think he thought any of that. Maybe his iron is broken. That you have created that whole story, and you know, it's the same. Like I hear people so many times of like, oh, the profiles I get online, is that what the algorithm thinks of me? That I'm only worth these profiles? And it's like, well, the algorithm doesn't take anything, it's a machine, and and it's us, it's what we're thinking about ourselves, and then we're twisting facts to you know basically hurt ourselves even more. And it's you know, it's not you, it's them. You don't know what anybody's going through. If you don't know, I I don't know, a guy's profile that look has terrible pictures on it. Maybe they don't have any friends to ask to take pictures of. Maybe they're too embarrassed to say, take some pictures of me for my online dating profile. Or, you know, if you go to a date and this happens quite a lot where they don't ask you any questions and they just talk at you and you come away kind of going, Oh my god, do they honestly believe you know I could put up with that? Maybe they haven't had anyone to talk to. And yes, it's not nice that they've just dumped all their emotional baggage on you, but maybe they haven't had anyone else to do that with, and suddenly they have a captive audience. And it doesn't mean anything about you, it's just like actually for that hour, two hours you were a safe space for them, and that was a nice thing that you did. It may not have felt that pleasant for you, and you don't ever want to see them again. But you know what, maybe you help somebody out.

SPEAKER_00: 35:00

Yeah, no, that's so true, because chances are they've been they've come in a s from a similar situ or they're in a similar situation to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:10

Um, but we all get so stuck in our heads worrying about what people think of us that we don't take a moment to think, well, what's going on for them? Um and if you can build up your own self-belief that it's so unshakable, then yeah, you just kind of go, oh well, it's not them, it's me. Or it's not them. It's not me, it's them.

SPEAKER_00: 35:32

Absolutely. Now, I mean, one thing that I'm sure it holds as true now as when I did online dating all those years ago, photo. It's pointless putting an old photo, isn't it? No matter how tempting it might be. It's like it's like your LinkedIn profile or your Facebook profile. Don't put anything that doesn't look like you because it's only going to end in well, not necessarily tears, but it's not going to end well, is it?

SPEAKER_01: 35:57

Yeah. I mean, if you have a picture that's a couple of years old but you still look the same, that's fine. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:03

Yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_01: 36:04

Not like really old. Um and you want your profile to reflect you and not uh what you think people want, it should just reflect you and what's true for you. Um, so yeah. No bathroom cell peace, men, please.

unknown: 36:20

All women.

SPEAKER_00: 36:21

No, I I'm just thinking, you know, if if you're happiest walking the dog in a muddy field in an Anorak, yeah, I would suggest, and I'm no dating expert at all, I would suggest it's probably better not to put a picture of you taken last Christmas in full makeup and a glitzy dress. Or am I overthinking it now?

SPEAKER_01: 36:44

Um so in terms of my tips around photographs, at most profiles you have six uh that you're allowed, so it's quite nice to have a bit of a section. You always start with one that is almost like headshot, it's close up, we can see your face very clearly, we can see your eyes, you can see your smile, um, no sunglasses. Um, you want to have a picture someplace that shows your full physique so people know how tall or wide you are, and there's no judgment on that, you are who you are, and the right person will love you for that. Um, and then kind of think of conversation starters. So if it's holiday pictures where you've been someplace quite interesting, that one that one's useful. If it's walking your dog and you have your dog, it's always a good conversation starter. Um or like hobbies and things that you're interested in, so that then people that are also I don't know, motorbike enthusiasts will be drawn to that, and then that's a really good idea. Um so yeah, if you No, I love that because even if you like glitz and glam.

SPEAKER_00: 37:45

Yeah, no, absolutely No, I I in my head I don't know why. It was just thinking oh, like the one shot, but no, of course, when it's it's like a little collage of photos, isn't it? But as you say, anything anything that helps start the conversations, because that's what you're looking to do, isn't it? You're gonna you're looking to whatever outcome you're looking for, it all starts with a conversation, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 38:06

Yeah, and you know, I think we can get too stuck into online and think that that is dating, like, but it's not. That is just the lead generation, it's just finding somebody to go for a coffee or a walk or a drink with, and that's where the relationship starts, is when you meet in person because there's so much that you cannot tell through online, and you can, you know, people always get hung up on this idea of not wasting time on a date, and they spend all this time you know trying to screen for this, that, and the other and ask all these questions and have weeks and weeks of conversation to make sure this person is worthy of me giving an hour of my time on a date to, and I thought you would have been quicker just going on a date and you'd know in 10 minutes when you're face to face with somebody.

SPEAKER_00: 38:45

I think I think you do, yeah, I think because you're absolutely right. Get getting in the same room space as someone is uh oh, I'm absolutely loving this, and obviously in a little while we're going to be sharing your contact details, which are also in the show notes and on the Midlife Unlimited podcast website for how people can get in touch with you. But before we go into your three questions that I ask each and every one of my fabulous female guests, is is there a key takeaway to anyone listening now thinking, right, it's the end of October? What would that what would their first step be, do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 39:23

Um, so first step is I guess get clear on what you want. So do you want a long-term relationship? Strip away all the defense mechanisms. Like I do a group coaching program, and the week one, I always say it's a bit like AA. You can't address a problem unless you identify that there's a problem. And you know, if people come into that and they're like, Oh yeah, I'd like to meet somebody, but you know, my life is great, it'd just be the cherry on top, and I'd be okay if I don't meet anyone. I'm like, well, no, do you want it? And are you committing to find it? Um, and I was like quite like to use this burn the boats. So I don't know if you know this, but um, I think it's from the Vikings when they went to invade a country, they would burn their boats, so there was no option to you know retreat and head back home. It was like you just need to go, and it's it is, it's it's peeling back those layers of defense mechanisms that we've built up, rightly so, because we want to keep ourselves safe. But you know, how can you get anything if you're not willing to say, I want it and I'm willing to work for it? And everyone has this romantic notion that you know, love and dating, it shouldn't be work, but I mean it's the most important thing you're spending your time with. Why on earth wouldn't you put work into it? Um absolutely. So yeah, I'm like, it drives me bonkers. I'm like, you'll get a coach, you know. You know when you go to a gym, you will get better results if you have a personal trainer. If you want to make a career move, you'll get a career coach, you know you'll get better results if you're focused on it. But love, oh well, that's just you know, when the stars align and this mythical fancy fantical person lands on my sofa, and it's like, no, come on.

SPEAKER_00: 40:59

Or even trying to find a carbon copy of what you've had before, and it's like that isn't necessarily the way forward, is it? That it's it now is a chance to think, well, try you know, try something a bit different, try something a bit new.

SPEAKER_01: 41:14

And a lot of women, I find, when we're coaching, well, they'll almost come to a realization that actually I never chose the people I was a bit in the past. You know, you kind of fall into things or societal pressure of like, you know, it it's good to be chosen. Um, and that takes over that want and need for somebody to like us, and we're not stopping to go, well, actually, what's right for me and who am I choosing? Um so yeah, so that is step number one. Um, and then I always say there's like kind of three relationships within dating. It's the one with yourself, so make sure that's solid and strong. Um, there's the one with the life that you lead, and make sure that your life is so bloody joyful that you are just exuding this energy that is attractive and magnetic, and people want to be part of that, and then it's the relationship with who you're inviting in. And that can be you find them online, you can find them a person, you find them through your network, it doesn't, it doesn't matter, but it's like it's the person that you're inviting into this beautiful life that you're creating, and we only have one, so let's make it a lovely life.

SPEAKER_00: 42:17

Oh, I love that. If if I if I wasn't happily I'd I'm getting quite no.

SPEAKER_01: 42:26

Well, my next group coaching is starting on November 4th, and uh, so if you want all of that steps to follow, you can join me then.

SPEAKER_00: 42:38

No, but what what I love and I love about your conversation is you you've not only made it clearer, but you really have busted some myths and stereotypes to make it less scary. Because I think that's one of the things, yeah, it doesn't have to be scary, does it? No, no, and we're gonna be giving your contact details again in a minute. But before we do, I'm not gonna scare you, but I am gonna ask you three questions. So the first question is what is your midlife anthem? The piece of music or song that when you hear it, you know it's gonna be a good day.

SPEAKER_01: 43:16

Um, so an artist called Brian Fallon, uh, who myself and my husband went to, he introduced me to them, to him, and we went to a lot of his gigs, uh, has a song called A Wonderful Life. And it's almost our anthem of like, well, we don't want to just there's a line in it's like, I don't want to survive, I want a wonderful life. And quite often life can feel like survival, can't it? It's like, oh, nine to five, commute, grudge, routine, routine, grind, same again. And we often stop ourselves and go, Oh, we're creating a wonderful life, and that will be hard sometimes, but we're committed to a wonderful life.

SPEAKER_00: 43:51

I love that. Oh, I'm gonna have to go and dig that out. I'm not familiar with him, but uh no, I will go on the Spotify or other music sites as soon as we've been. Yeah, well, now I want to know question two, please. What is your midlife mantra? The phrase you live your midlife by. You're laughing. I like that.

SPEAKER_01: 44:13

Fuck it. What's the worst that can happen?

SPEAKER_00: 44:16

I'm with you. Absolutely, and that applies so beautifully to the whole dating scene, yeah, doesn't it? What is the worst that can happen? You don't like them, you've wasted 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01: 44:27

Yeah, exactly. Um, and like I always say a date is just a date, and you know, just go into it with the mindset of I'm gonna learn something new, I'm gonna try out something new. Like, you know, if if you struggle with boundary setting, just practice use your date as practice setting boundaries. That this date is only gonna be an hour, and I'm gonna be strong enough to say, actually, I'm I'm okay to go home now. Thanks. Um but not worry about what they think.

SPEAKER_00: 44:52

Is it okay to go to the loo and not come back, or should you really say goodbye? No, you won't want anyone doing that to you, would you? No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01: 45:01

It's all about karma. Put out what you would like to receive back. No, absol I th I I knew you'd say that. And when I'm working with people as well, I'm like, okay, number one rule is no ghosting.

SPEAKER_00: 45:13

It's tempting, but do not do it. No, no, no, no, no. Let's pull our big girl pants up and say no, thank you. It was lovely, lovely to meet you, but have a good life. Absolutely. And talking of a good life, what is the title of your autobiography?

SPEAKER_01: 45:31

Um, you have your chances, and that is um a phrase that my uncle used to say, and it was like, Yeah, you could stay in that job, or you could take a chance and set up a business, but you have your chances.

SPEAKER_00: 45:46

Yeah. Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01: 45:49

Oh, I'm getting all emotional with these big questions.

SPEAKER_00: 45:52

Yeah, no, it's that is really it's so true, isn't it? You know, and grab 'em. Yeah, because they may not necessarily go the way you think they're going to, but that's what life's all about, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. We haven't got we haven't got a crystal ball, we don't know really what's coming. Even even the best laid plans can take us somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01: 46:12

So uh yeah, it's like you know, if you get an invite or a random thing, just go, you have your chances.

SPEAKER_00: 46:22

No, well, absolutely. I mean Hannah who Hannah Holt, who a previous um guest on Midlife Unlimited, that's exactly how she met her husband. She was invited, invited to a party, wasn't gonna go, and then thought, oh why not? And if she hadn't gone, they wouldn't have met, and there was no other time that they, you know, it was one of those completely random two people in the same place. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:47

And I recently found out actually that myself and my husband we we both lived in Southwest London uh for years at the same time, never met down there. Uh, and I found out this summer we had the exact same commute. So we took the same train from Clapton Junction to Shepherd's Bush for over a year and never met. And do you know why I think that was why we why I wouldn't have even noticed him was because I was in such a like controlling energy of like, you know, I have had this ideal of who I was meant to be with, and actually, if that's not happening, I'm just gonna focus on career. Um, and it wasn't until I was like, oh well, I'll go on Tinder because that's where all the numbers are. I have my chances.

SPEAKER_00: 47:29

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Right, we're gonna help, we're gonna help some well. Well, I won't. I'll help them in other ways, but in when it comes to this dating game, we're gonna start playing, make our own rules. How can the wonderful ladies listening and gents get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_01: 47:46

Um, so you can jump on my website, kindlingdating.com, um, and you can message me through that. You can book in a call with me through that. Um, I have a little quiz called the Dating Blockers Quiz, which kind of helps you start to see where maybe the repeating thoughts are that might be holding you back. And there's a little audio series that you can get for free after that to help break down that blocker. Um, I'm obviously on Instagram, LinkedIn, all of the usual places as well. Um, but yeah. And go and buy Platinum magazine as well.

SPEAKER_00: 48:17

Yeah. I I I was in it back in May, but you you're you've got your uh is it a column that you're writing?

SPEAKER_01: 48:23

Um so it's a monthly feature um called dating rehab, and uh essentially it's clients that I coach through um dating agree to share their story. Um, and we share, you know, what my prescription is, what the shifts is that they make, whether that's mindset or action that they're taking. And then the dating success, whether it was that they've met somebody in our current issue, the lovely Sarah met somebody in real life. Um, they've been on holiday together, they are so bloody cute. It's really oh I love that.

SPEAKER_00: 48:55

Well, I'd like to I'd like to hear from listeners if we've inspired you and uh keep in touch with us as well. If you've go and meet someone as a result of this episode, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 49:08

Yeah, I'd love to know that.

SPEAKER_00: 49:11

Yeah, so I'd love your feedback on today's episode. So it'd be fabulous if you could leave a review, or you can email me or text me via the link in the show notes and come and join the Midlife Unlimited podcast Facebook group. Again, link in the show notes, where you'll find the link to the website with details of my exclusive VIP coaching offers and obviously Ema's um guest profiles on there as well. And for all you budding experts who want to transform from nervous podcast guest wannabe to the expert that podcast hosts want on their show. And if you've been procrastinating about launching your podcast and are ready to stop playing and start recording, head over to the school platform now and join my new community, Pop Your Podcast Cherry, for free. It's free, it's free. So thank you for joining me, Iba. I've absolutely loved this today. Really, really good stuff there. Brilliant nuggets, and I'm looking forward to hearing real life stories back from listeners who've been inspired, like I said. So thank you for listening. I look forward to you tuning in next week because don't forget Midlife Unlimited has a new episode every Thursday available wherever you listen to your podcasts. So here's to being fabulous and flourishing together and living midlife unlimited. Thanks ever so much for joining me. Bye.