Episode #055 How to Make Sure Your Will Reflects Your Wants as a Midlife Woman with Guest Nellie McQuinn

Does the thought of writing a will scare you? Do you see it as a reminder of your mortality? Something that you’ll get round to… one day? Or are you super organised and have a will in place… but it actually doesn’t reflect your recently changed circumstances?

Let’s face it.. we won’t be around when our will comes into play. So it’s vital we take action now to make sure our wishes are fulfilled.

I’m calling in the expert and am delighted to be joined for Episode 055 by my guest Nellie McQuinn, founder and CEO at Away Wills, to talk about How to make sure your Will Reflects Your Wants as a Midlife Woman.

As Nellie reminds us, adulting isn’t just paying bills. And she’s on a mission to make wills sexy by helping us get our head around the process of getting our will sorted so that we can get on with living our life to the max.

Far from making light of death, Nellie and I delve into the heart-felt reasons behind her passion to celebrate every precious moment of life – and to help us ensure our will isn’t the last thing we regret. 

And don’t miss Nellie’s top tips for how to make the will-writing process work best for us so that our lasting legacy for loved ones is the one we wish for.

Connect with Nellie

https://calendly.com/awaywills/no-obligation-call

https://www.instagram.com/awaywills

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nmcquinn/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm your host, Kate Porter, the Midlife Metamorphosis Coach, and I know what it's like to feel stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in the mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know you're not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and put up with it. You don't have to play it safe. Midlife Unlimited is all about ripping off that mask and telling Midlife how it really is. Nothing is off limits, because together there's no limit to what we can achieve. So welcome to today's episode. Now I've had so many women contact me following episode 35, where my guests Louise Monaghan and I talked about how to make midlife dead simple. We delved into the peace of mind benefits of starting to get organized now so that our lasting legacy for our loved ones isn't endless drawers crammed with seemingly random stuff. And the topic of wills has come up again and again. So in true midlife unlimited style, I am calling in the expert. And I'm delighted to be joined by my guest today, Nellie McQuinn, founder and CEO of Away Wills, to talk about how to make sure your will reflects your wants. So welcome, Nellie. It's fabulous to have you here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:39

Hello, Kate. Thank you so much for having me. I am over the moon to be here and very excited to talk about all things Wills.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46

Well, that's it, because that's one of the things I love about you. We've yet to meet in real life, but I was struck by your energy, your enthusiasm. Because anyone who can make Wills sexy, anyone that can make Wills something that we need, we need to talk about it, ladies and we can't we can't get away. We can't put our head under a rock because if we do, Nelly will explain later on. She's gonna be sharing her top tips. Putting our head under a rock is probably the worst thing we can do, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 2:12

Pretending it'll all be fine. Yeah, it really is. And it's it there it's such an important document. And I do think part of the reason I came into, well, actually, the majority of the reason I came into this industry was just trying to dispel this myth that will writing has to be for you know a much older generation. It has to be for people who are on the brink of death. It that's absolutely not true. And and I am an older millennial and I looked around at my peers and went, we need to be talking about this now. Why are we not talking about this in the early stages, putting it into action now so that it's not a big deal when you get older? And I see that time and time again every day. So I yes, I feel very passionately and I'm I'm on a mission. It's it's amazing you said that, Kate, because I I've I've been outlining my missions recently and making wills sexy was actually one of the things that I thought of. And I thought no one's gonna believe me when I said that. So I'm so glad you said that because that is definitely what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01: 3:13

Yeah, we haven't discussed that phrase, but no, that is the end, that's the energy that you feed off because and I'm gonna be open here and frank now. I have made I've made a will, but I made a will when my little boy, when I was a single mum, and when my little boy was very little, and my little boy is now 23, almost 24, and my circumstances have changed. I've been my partner now for 15, 17-ish years, and I haven't updated my will. Yeah, and so I kind of I come in at your the bottom end of your target was when I was like, oh yes, I'm going to, I know. But things change, it's almost it's like not a living will, but it's it should be a living document, as in, and we're gonna go into all the changes because midlife is a time of change, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 4:05

We got you know, we've got midlife is it's it's a total time of change, but then equally I kind of think there's change at every point in life, and isn't that what makes life amazing and wonderful? And and you know, it is that rich tapestry of day-to-day. And I do recommend to everyone that you review your will every three to five years. Um, so Kate, you're well overdue. We can talk about that later.

SPEAKER_01: 4:31

Um, but every so many things.

SPEAKER_00: 4:34

Yeah, it's it's it's not, and you know, that's not to say every three years you need to redraft your will, every five years you need to redraft it. You don't necessarily, but you need to revisit it. You need to have a look at it and just check and sense check. Have I now been living with a long-term partner of 17 years that I probably want to include in my will? You know, is my three-year-old son now in his, you know, early 20s and has his needs changed? Um, and and it's just to sense check that. And it might be that you're fine with the will that you wrote a while ago, and that's totally okay. You know, I'm I'm a big advocate for not pushing, I don't I don't believe in the hard sales tactics. And to be honest, that's probably part of you know a downfall of my, but I don't push people. If they don't need to redraft their will, I don't push it. Sometimes a will that you got from 10 years ago is fine, but just know that you've got it and know what's in it, and know that it is right. That's that's my kind of my push, really.

SPEAKER_01: 5:31

Yeah, no, I think that's you just epitomize exactly why I wanted to do this episode because it's all about making sure that the will is right for us. Yes, correct, sadly, we won't be around to hear it being read out loud and see all the gasps and shocks and rows or whatever that might follow. And they might, who knows? They might. We see it so often in these films, don't we? But uh, you know, people may not be in agreement. So, I mean, something we can perhaps talk about later or maybe even talk about now, but go straight into a tip before we go into a bit more of your history and how you came about. Do you tell people what you've put in your will?

SPEAKER_00: 6:06

So, gee, that's really personal. Um, and the it ultimately it's up to you. I've got people who draft wills with their family members in situ, you know, they do it all together. Doesn't it? And yeah, and it's sort of you get you get a ahead of any potential conflict. I've got other um people who are so secretive about what's in the will that I they've got smacks of Agatha Christie, or doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 6:31

Or a Hitchcock film with like the grand unveiling.

SPEAKER_00: 6:36

Honestly, I've had the stories that I have had uh, you know, are unbelievable. I've had clients who they don't want, they want their letters to be anonymous in terms of so I have a big sticker that I put on the back of my all of my postal correspondence, you know, it says away wills and it's bright and colourful. Yeah. But some people do not want me to put that on there because they don't want their family to know if they get in the post that they've written this will. So some some people I have to um yeah, keep it anonymous. Sometimes it's for safeguarding, and that's that's actually a really um, that's a real sort of uh it was a shock initially to me dealing with some of these clients where it is a safeguarding issue, you know, that's that's um uh it can be a bit confronting. Um so I'm not including it because they might be divorcing someone, they might be in an abusive relationship, they might have a um someone who's mentally unwell in the family, you know. So there's that side of it, but some people I think are just genuinely like really secretive and don't want people to know. So that's um that's well, I mean, look, I get this snapshot of life every day. I get to peep behind the curtain of every everyone's life, and I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 7:48

Yeah, it just it's just suddenly sprung to mind. It's like, oh, it doesn't it doesn't bode well, does it? If it is gonna be a huge shock to some of the people sitting there.

SPEAKER_00: 7:59

Yeah, and keep in mind as well, and this is something people don't really um aren't aware of, your will can be made public. So after you pass, anyone in the world can apply to get a copy of your will. So you have to keep in mind that the will itself will become a public document. The reason being that anyone uh could contest it. So in this country, we have the 1975 Inheritance Act. I won't bore you with all of the details, but it gives certain people a right to contest a will if their way of living has been altered because they weren't in the will. Now it's very hard for them to contest a will if they don't know what's in the will. So thus you have the right to apply to get the will. This is only after it's after you've passed, by the way. This is not before you've passed. So please don't think that you draft a will and then anyone can have a look at it. It's only once it's been put through the um grant of probate that then people can start to question whether I should be included in it and make a claim against it. So that's something to keep in mind because you don't want to be putting all of your dirty laundry in your will. That's more for the letter of wishes, which is a document that can sit alongside of it and doesn't go public. So that's just something to keep in mind.

SPEAKER_01: 9:14

No. Oh, this is this is all like, oh my goodness, I didn't know this, I didn't know this. And I know when we come to your top tips later on, because I don't want to get into them too early and get get it confused because it's you make it so not complicated, it's fabulous. And I love that. But I know there are so many issues about you know, second marriage and as you say, kids, and if you die without a will, that I'd love to touch on when we get to your top tips later on. But firstly, before we delve into your story of how you've basically gone from Priscilla Queen of the Desert to the will expert that we had to have on midlife unlimited, a bit of history, because you're actually let me get this correct. You're campaigning for part in Parliament to actually get the 1837 Wills Act changed. Is that correct? Yeah, so and this is something listeners really just were like mentioned in passing. I was like, sorry, pardon. You're campaigning you're campaigning in parliament.

SPEAKER_00: 10:15

I'm trying, I'm trying desperately. So it's so we are governed by and so I've come to this industry fairly recently, and we will go into my history, and I'm not from this world, I'm now in it, and I love it, and it's definitely my my place in in life. However, I've come to it um rather recently, and I think I came to the industry with uh a sort of a a different viewpoint, shall we say. Um, and and like you said, trying to make will sexy and give it energy and you know, dispel the myths that wills are for people who are 80 plus. You know, it's it's you find the whole thing fascinating rather than morbid, isn't it? I do. I f I find it fascinating and I find it so essential. But but and back to the the the 1837 Wills Act, that that's not a that's not a just a random number. We are dictated by the Wills Act that was drafted in 1837. It is 180 plus years old, nearly 190 years old. It's out of date. It is so, so out of date. Now, there are some things that are foundational to how we draft wills, and they're fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There are some parts of it that I that work, have worked for, you know, nearly 200 years now. Don't don't play with those. They're fine. But there are other things that we just have to go. It's a different time now. 1837, unsurprisingly, uh, does not have, there is no provisions for electronic wills in there. Why is that? Because a computer wasn't it, it wasn't in existence. No one knew that you could that you could even contemplate what an electronic will was. You know, there there are all sorts of things, uh, long-term partners, and we we touched on that, we'll go into that again later, Kate. But, you know, if you aren't married in the 1837 Wills Act, if you've been living, if you are the parent of their child, you know, you've been living with them for 25 years, long-term lover, they are as related to you in the 1837 Wills Act as the bin man is. You know, if you die without a will, they are strangers. And there's so many things in modern life that just need to change. So when I started to sort of um get into the industry, um, I and I'm, you know, I must say there's a huge piece of work that's been done. The Law Commission did a major report. It was released in April this year, and uh, they have drafted the Wills Act of 2025, um, and they are putting it to Parliament to see if it can pass. But as is government, um, you know, it's it's a beast, it's like the Titanic to turn and make change. So that's where I have tried to be vocal and you know, got in touch with my my MP. I went into Westminster to meet him to say, please, please, please, can we support this? Can you see that there is someone from a younger generation who really desperately feels like electronic wills in particular, which I feel very passionately about, would unlock accessibility for so many different people. You know, at the moment, the only document, your will, that single piece of paper, that single signed document, that's it. That's the only valid document. Copies aren't valid, you can't have a PDF, you can't docu-sign, you can't do anything like that. It's that single paper copy, which is archaic. We've we've moved on. I don't know where mine is you made it. You and yeah, you and however many other millions of people, right? And ultimately, if you can't find it, you don't have it. So you if you were to pass away, Kate, and you've got eight, at least you've got a will, be it out of day. So at least you've got something. But if you if you can't find it, you've got nothing. So you are in essence dying without a will. So I'm a big fan of the electronic wills. There would be remote witnessing, it would enable remote witnessing. I what when I first drafted my first will with my husband, we didn't get it witness because we just didn't have time to find two people who weren't named in the will, who weren't related, to come over to sit and read this thing with it. We just didn't have that. You know, we were both working. I was going through IVF at the time. It was it was chaos. So I would I didn't have time to find those two people, whereas I could have if we could have done it electronically. Anyway, I'm I'm getting on my soapbox. But yes, that's what I'm campaigning for for change, for accessibility, for all of it.

SPEAKER_01: 14:33

We'll be giving your contact details and your social links later on. I high, I I will be definitely following the journey because I look forward to finding more about it. Because it's so, you know, that there are there are lots of things that go on in parliament that don't directly, you know, they think, oh, it's even, you know, if we're not politically aware, we can just think, God, I'm sick of that. But this is something that we're totally as midlife women, rah-rah, rah, this is something that we do need to actually be keeping our finger on. So I think we're all be following you in connecting. 100%.

SPEAKER_00: 15:02

Yeah, really. And and I I am a big fan of it. I am quite vocal, as you can see. I've got I'm on my mission, I'm making wills sexy. Um, and I think you know, uh, people in midlife, people in their early stages, people or every stage of life, you should have a will. I always say the moment you have something you love is the moment you need a will. And I I would question anyone who doesn't have something that they want to protect.

SPEAKER_01: 15:28

Absolutely, absolutely. So we we you've we've alluded to your quite I mean, I love the word metamorphosis, it embraces everything that I'm about, but I think you are a rather amazing example of a metamorphosis journey. Because obviously, yeah. Well, you've crossed oceans to be here. I have left that you've left Priscilla and her desert behind. But you you're third generation entertainment, is that correct? It's in your book.

SPEAKER_00: 15:57

So I'm third it yeah, it definitely is. So I am third generation entertainment professional. Um, my grandparents, god love them, and actually back to sort of my uh fascination with stories and death, and I definitely think that was because I was um brought up by my mum and my grandparents, her parents, and I I they passed uh when I was in my teenage years, and I sort of had that front row um experience with death, and I adored and still adore them both. I love them very much. Um, but my grandmother was one of the first um ballet dancers in um the Borovansky Ballet, which is the Australian Ballet Company, um, and she was then one of the first female stage managers. She was a force to be reckoned with. I definitely get that from her. Um, my grandfather was um was uh one of the first television directors in Australia. So he um yeah, so he was part of that sort of pioneering generation, forging um away with television. My dad is a theatre producer, Priscilla Queen of the Desert, which you've mentioned is his baby. I take full responsibility for the musical of that. That's another story. Um, and my mum is an actress um and performer. So I I genuinely performance was so in my DNA um and my blood, and I love it. Um, I started dancing when I was three. I started working in television professionally when I was seven. Um, I moved over to the UK to train um as a dancer and an actress. I went to Rada. I did that when I was 17. I started my production company when I was 19. Um, I started my production company with a very dear friend of mine. Uh, and I started it because I wanted to cast myself in roles. So that sort of gives you an insight of my kind of I'm I'm not one to sit back on my and rest on my laurels. I was like, I can wait. I can do that.

SPEAKER_01: 17:43

I can't wait for it to come to you.

SPEAKER_00: 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:45

I do not. I do not.

SPEAKER_00: 17:46

So I just, yeah, exactly. So I decided the best way was to just, you know, create a company. Um ended up loving producing and producing sort of it definitely, I it it again in my blood, but I just I fell in love with that and I sort of parallel, I was performing um and producing. I met my husband, who is an actor, um, whilst we were in a show together. Uh, and and uh but producing sort of took over. Um, so then about six or so, I need to get the dates right, but about six years ago, maybe seven years ago, um my production company got acquired by a much bigger startup. Um, and that startup brought us on board as the sort of the foundation of the production team. So I then became the vice president, head of production of a global media company. Uh, I went from a six-person team in a basement to a nearly 200-person team globally. Um, I was in charge of production for the biggest uh preschool brands in the world. Um, so Coco Melon, Blippy, Little Baby Bum. Anyone who's got grandchildren who's listening to this or children that young will will know those names. Um and yeah, I I was at the top of my game in terms of production, and I I sort of thought that was my life. Um, and then I I had my first child, um my daughter, went through a grueling five rounds of IVF to get her. Um, and I say that just for context, uh, because I then got made suddenly redundant um from my job. Um I got made redundant, and then whilst I was negotiating how I was getting from from what was your own creation? Uh yeah, I mean look, it was a bigger beast at that point, you know, and it was it was absolutely massive. But yes, I had grown my baby um from the age of 19 and then sort of given it to them and then helped grow this much bigger beast. Um so to then be exited um very suddenly, unexpectedly, and I'm talking kind of, you know, I went into an office and then I walked out the front door and I never went back, um, you know, very suddenly. Um, and then on top of that, I found out I was naturally pregnant um whilst I was negotiating my exit. So, um, and I say that because obviously after five rounds of IVF, my husband and I didn't think that that was gonna be uh, you know, on the cards for us. Um uh so all of a sudden, I my life just it was it felt like overnight was not what it looked like. Um, you know, literally weeks ago. Um, I get very sick in my pregnancies, so I have hyperemesis, I spend multiple days a week in hospital on drips, so I can't work. Um, and I'm also the breadwinner. So, you know, it was just this cacophony of things that happened. And I I I say this as well to sort of say, if you're in this at the moment, know that there's there's another side to it, and know that you can get through it. Because, you know, I was made redundant. All of a sudden I've I'm pregnant, I've I'm worrying about where my bills are how my bills are going to be paid because I'm the breadwinner. My husband is a stay-at-home dad and an actor, so you know, work for him is not sort of a steady stream and he is a stay-at-home dad. Um, and I'm I'm bouncing up and down to hospital literally three times a week to sit for eight hours on a drip so I can get vitamins and and things into my system because otherwise I'll just format them up. Um, I was at rock bottom, like and really just not sure what to do with my life. I definitely was bruised in terms of my ego, and I didn't want to go back into entertainment. Um, and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. So I thought, and sorry, this is a very long-winded conversation. Um, I thought I I will have, I thought, you know what? I've helped build this business. Maybe I can build another one. I thought maybe I'll buy a business. You can buy business hilarious to me, business for businessesforsale.com. Um, if you ever, if you're in that mindset, have a look. It's hilarious. Um, to look at all the different, I find it fascinating, different businesses that are for sale. You can buy a business for a couple of grand. And I thought, maybe I'll buy a business and see if I can grow it. Do you have like a checklist in your mind?

SPEAKER_01: 22:05

Did you think, right, I'm doing it this way, this you yeah. Yeah. I had a massive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:10

No, I had I my the the theme of the business was to be agnostic. I didn't know what I wanted to do. What I wanted to look at was the numbers. And so I wanted to find something that was very numbers driven and that I felt had was a good business model. And I wanted that to sort of be a cold third perspective, to just look at it and go, I can make money on this. This is what I will do. I'm not gonna get invested. I completely that I that went out the window, um, clearly, because I am so passionately about passionate about wheels. And I ended up speaking to a will writer. Um, I had no interest in Wheels, no, none whatsoever. It was not something I had even entertained as a notion. But he made a comment, and I was definitely way too pregnant and emotional and hormonal to have this comment given to me, which was if you don't write a will and you have minor children, they will become the responsibility of the courts if you pass away. And something in me shifted, and I probably my unborn child, but I was genuinely like holy moly. Yeah, horrendous. And not only that, but if you have two children and both the parents pass away without a guardian named, there is a good chance that they will go into care and be separated because the the state and the government have to do their due diligence. They can't hand out, you know, guardianship willy-nilly. You don't want it going to creepy Uncle Jack, you know, like just because he's first in line. It's a good thing. But emotionally, can you imagine your and my daughter was three at the time, and you know, newborn baby, uh, not being wrapped in love, not having their grandparents come and move in temporarily to keep them in their room, to keep them at the school and the nursery that they know, to keep them in their home. You know, they've just lost both their parents. And instead of having that love wrapped around them, it gives me goosebumps every time I say this. Absolutely. And thinking with yeah, yeah, and thinking that they would just be potentially separated, go to strangers' homes, and just the trauma that would impart, like it just was heartbreaking. And I suddenly had this thing in me shift of why are we not talking about this? Why can I do that?

SPEAKER_01: 24:34

And this is one reason why I wanted you on, just to actually sorry, ladies, if you're listening and you're thinking, oh my gosh, this is we're not being overdramatic. No, it's it's a tragic situation, but it does happen, and it needn't necessarily be death, it could be all sorts of different circumstances.

SPEAKER_00: 24:53

Yeah, it's just it's it's one of those things, and I genuinely why I feel so passionately about it, and that's why I love coming onto things like this, Kate, to talk to you. Uh, is it's about education, it's about people knowing that they need it because the amount of people I go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, they should, oh yeah, I should have that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just haven't got around to it yet. And it's just because it's there is it isn't in the public psyche. You know, I got discharged from hospital and I've been through birth now twice. I can tell you everything about nipple shields and sleep regressions. Not one person said to me, Have you thought about writing a will now that you've got a baby? Not one person, you know, and I just think that should be part of the exit form. You know, you just you get discharged and they say, Oh, by the way, you should you should think about this, you know, just to put it in there, but they don't, and we don't. And I think it's culturally we are afraid of death. I think we're afraid of talking about it, but you can talk about getting you can talk about babies and not get pregnant. Um, and yeah, after five rounds of five years, I can assure you, it does not happen that way. We can talk about wills and not die. It's not, I do not believe in that sort of so that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01: 25:56

I think, especially at the moment, you know, my kind of I mean, I'm 56, uh even younger, 40s, late 30s. We start thinking about parents, they're getting older. It may be that we're having to think about them having wills or they they're passing younger and they haven't got a will. So the focus might be on that, but it doesn't necessarily ricochet back to us that we actually pull our finger out and get on with it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:25

A hundred percent. And I genuinely I recommend, you know, when I'm drafting a will with someone older, I draft everyone's wills. I will draft everyone. Have a will party. Um, yeah, well, you know, funnily enough, um, I'm actually trying to um set up in-person sessions. There is a domestic abuse charity that I am keen to work with. Um, a lot of people don't realize, and this is a little sneak preview into one of my top tips. If you get divorced, until you get divorced, you don't, you, your will still stands. So what I'm working with them is doing a will party, basically, of all getting getting into a room and all the women um and men, if they've been victims of domestic abuse, drafting all together, just doing it all in one go, printing them off, and they've got their will. You know, so it I that's how much I feel strongly that we should be um should be doing them. But yeah, it's interesting. The younger people, when I draft their wills, they're fine with it. They're they're the conversations are different. There's a brevity, there's a lightness. It's death for them isn't, you know, right in front of their faces. It's actually, dare I say, an enjoyable process. We do, you know, we go through things. You feel great at the end of it when you've sorted it all out. When I'm drafting someone's will and they're in their 80s or 90s, it's a very different experience. You ask them, have you thought about whether you will be buried or cremated? And that's a really tangible thing, you know, because it's it's it's immediate, you know, whereas we can have wonderful chats when you're younger. And these are vast, you know, I'm making generalizations. Obviously, some older people have, you know, tongue in cheek, and it's fine. But I just I do see that divide, which is why I think, you know, even you said you're in your mid-50s, Kate, like now is the time to do it because it's not as apparent.

SPEAKER_01: 28:11

No, absolutely, you know, I'm having volivons, I'm having the Nolans, I'm in the mood for dancing, is the main song. Yes, but put all that you will. So I've got a kind of a bit of a tearjerker that I can't even hear this song without crying myself. I went into the news agent the other day to post a parcel, um, and this song, The Calling Wherever I Go, was playing, and I I almost had a moment, and I don't just mean a midlife moment, I almost burst into tears in the middle. In the middle of the post of us. Yeah, because this song just gets at me every time.

SPEAKER_00: 28:46

But uh you want that, right? You want that written down, you want to know that that is something yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:55

But no, you're right, it's all about having the conversations, isn't it? I think well shall shall we shall we start delving into your top tips? And obviously, we we can add on other bits as we go through, but I think that that would be quite timely. So, I mean, do you want to start off with the whole idea of divorce or have you got a yeah?

SPEAKER_00: 29:16

No, I mean, look, uh my top tip is to just do it. Um that's that's my number one tip is just write it. Um, it's definitely something that people uh get overwhelmed with, and I understand that. The the key to me is finding a someone who doesn't bombard you with legal jargon um and someone that you feel comfortable with. You know, there are there are so many, there are some, I don't want, I don't want to speak ill of anyone, um, but I you know I do think there are a lot of um uh and this is again a sweeping gener uh generalization, but there are some drafters who are a much older. This is, you know, this is a sort of a tick box box exercise. So I think for me the key. Is finding someone who you gel with and who you can talk to because it's such a personal experience. Um, and it is personal, I do think that. And you're talking about some really intimate details um of someone's preferences. So you need to you need to find someone who you can be comfortable with, um, and you can be comfortable asking questions of. I am very, very passionate. Every one of my clients, we will go through it 20, 30, 40 times. I don't care. I want to know that they understand what is in their will. Um, so legal jargon needs to be in there, of course, but find someone who is okay to explain it all to you. Um, I'm also a fan of a fixed fee. I don't like um when uh some solicitors will charge per hour, uh, they'll do the sort of the initial drafting, but then if you've got questions, you're getting an extra bill and it goes up and up. And I hate that. I think that that's I just don't think that's it's certainly not my business model. As I said, if you need to spend another two hours talking it through with me, that's that's fine. I I want you to do that. I have people who WhatsApp me and voice note me with questions. Um, so yeah, just be careful of the billing per hour. Um often, often I find that um some firms will charge 40 quid for a will, which is ridiculously cheap and that it doesn't cover their cost at all. But where they make it back is, you know, the upsells and the and that. So so just be be wary of that. Be wary of that. Again, often it's it's not quoted with that. So you just need to make sure that whatever you're quoted up front is the cost that you will pay. Um, if you need trusts in your will, again, that's another thing that sometimes um trusts are brilliant vehicles. Yeah, will-based trust is um a sort of it's it's kind of a ring-fencing vehicle. So if you have children who are maybe vulnerable, um, and that might be that they are not um mentally able to make decisions by themselves. That might be through, you know, they might have bipolar or they might have alcoholic um dependencies and you know, or they might have an abusive spouse who you don't want to get access. You you can create these wonderful vehicles, will-based trusts in your will, and it protects it for your beneficiaries. Um, I do I draft them a lot. I don't charge any extra to draft them. Some firms will, you know, so you'll end up going in with your 40-pound will, um, and then you need three trusts, and all of a sudden it's 500 pounds of trust, and you're coming out with a, you know, nearly two grand bill. So that's definitely something I would be um cautious of. Um, it is an unregulated industry. Now, what that means is that um the postman could write your will uh and could charge you, and there is no recourse, there's no sort of um requirement, like a solicitor obviously has to be sort of registered. So I there are um several bodies, governing bodies, that it's voluntary um to be a part of them. And it's our way, it's the legitimate people's way of sort of self-governing and self-regulating. So personally, I am a full society of will writers member. Um, and what that means is that I have to have certain insurances, I have to um do a continuous learning annually, a certain amount of hours of continuous learning, I have to um abide by their guidelines and their code of conduct. So um it's very important that just because someone is a high street solicitor doesn't mean they know what they're doing in the will space. And I see that a lot where people go, well, it was it was a solicitor. You go, yes, but they're a divorce attorney. They don't, you know, yeah. That's a very good point. Yeah, deal with wills. You know, I I deal with wills all day, every day, day in, day out. I'm I'm constantly learning, I'm constantly at the front of what the changes in terms of legislation mean, as we've already talked about. So double check, they should be a member of the Society of Will Writers or STEP, S T E P. Those are the two that um, in all honesty, you want your will drafter to be a member of one of those. That's their way of saying I'm legitimate and I'm governed by another sort of body. Um, so those are some tips in terms of finding um the the sort of your drafter in that process. Um, I I mentioned before your single paper copy until I get the, you know, we can get the 2025 Rules Act class. Yeah, exactly. Um that single paper copy is your only valid copy, wet signature on paper. It needs to be done and signed with two witnesses in person. They have to be unrelated to you and not mentioned in the will. Um, neighbors are a good one, you know, family friends, also good. Because I thought they had to be certain professions, or is that no? So they can be so with lasting powers of attorney, um, you can have a certificate provider which attests to your mental capacity and you can have professionals do that. But um, I go back to the bin man, you know, it could be the bin man witnessing it. It's just the fact that you are who you say you are and signing. Um, and in fact, they don't even have an obligation to check your ID. So again, that's why I feel passionately about electronic signing because there'd be digital signatures. And anyway, um, but that paper copy, think about storing it. So we offer a service at the National Will Archive. Most people don't know you can do this. So it is a building up in Lincolnshire and they store your physical paper will. So it gets registered on the National Will Database, which means that anyone can go into any high street probate specialist and say, I need Kate Porter's will. I've got no idea where it is. They'll look it up and it'll ping and they'll say, Oh yeah, it's at the National Will Will Archive up in Lincoln. So it's safe. Um, it's it I highly recommend that because as you said, Kate, where's your will? Who knows? You know, it's uh paperwork.

SPEAKER_01: 35:55

You know, it just is I think it's I think it's in my dad's fireproof box of paperwork, but I'm not 100% sure. It should really be no, I'm definitely gonna look into that. I like because as you say, you know, we touched on earlier, midlife in particular is a time of lots of changes. Obviously, bereavement, divorce, separation, and it is so important, isn't it? If you're having the unfortunate time of going through a shitty time, that the will and and updating or even just checking that your will, if it needs updating, is still valid, even that's that could be the last thing on your mind, couldn't it, when everything else is going tits up.

SPEAKER_00: 36:43

It is absolutely the last thing on people's minds. And I do say this, and especially uh, you know, we see in midlife that divorces happen more. Um, you know, the kids have grown up and they've they've left the house and and divorce.

SPEAKER_01: 36:57

Second marriages, you said as well as a major time to actually look at your will.

SPEAKER_00: 37:03

Absolutely. Um, you know, the the law is that if you die without a will, um, your spouse um or civil partner inherits the bulk of your estate up to a certain threshold, it will just first up go to them. Now, what that means is if you are going through divorce and you have not f signed that final piece of paper, and divorces can take years, right? You know, you go through unpleasant divorces, it can take so long. If you were to get hit by a bus in the middle of that process and you didn't have a will, despite the fact that you were in an active, unpleasant, bitter divorce, your estate would still go to your spouse. Because on paper, you are still married. So the moment I say to anyone, it doesn't matter if you're 20 years separated, if you are still married on paper, until you sign that final divorce paper and you separate officially divorce, your spouse will get um the vast majority of your estate. So that's that's number one, 100%. I cannot say this enough. If you are entertaining the notion of separating, look at your will. Um once you divorce, uh, it means that they are considered as having predeceased you. So the law is that um it basically it's like they've died. So they can't act as your executor and they can't act as your um they can't and they can't benefit under the will. It's they're dead in the eyes of um the will's law. Um, some people, on the other hand, don't want that to happen. You know, they sort of say, look, if we divorce, I I still want them to inherit, I still want them to act as my executor because um they're the you know parent of my children and we're actually really good friends, and you know, maybe it was a marriage of convenience.

SPEAKER_01: 38:41

It's just not all just we've drifted apart, but we, you know, we're still in each other's lives for every yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:46

Exactly, exactly. So that's another thing to think about that if you do get divorced, that you know, they be aware of that on the flip side. Um, in terms of second marriages, um, this is a big one where I do use the will-based trusts a lot. If you have children from a first marriage and then potentially they pass away, so you're a widow and you remarry, brilliant, absolutely loved that. All of the wealth um normally passes, and again, like we just said, it passes from spouse to spouse. So if you haven't got a will, all of the wealth from that first person that's passed away goes to you. You now have children with that person, but you've remarried. If you don't update your will and you don't write in um a vehicle to go down to your children and you pass away, yours is now going, your wealth, which is actually your ex your your um your deceased spouse's wealth, is going to your new partner instead of down to your children. So if you if that original person had a lot of wealth, it's not going to their children, it's going to their spouse's new spouse, which is just nuts. No, right? Like that's yeah, it's it's crazy. So stepchildren, um, you know, uh out of the will, they just they're not considered biological children, so there's you know nothing there. So it's just any I mean, just write a will. I don't it's it's so easy to protect, and honestly, that's a very common situation nowadays, and I draft it a lot, and it it takes my entire appointment takes two hours. Um, it seems like a lot, but we have a blast and we have a laugh and we go through it all, and you can tell my personality, it's not morbid. Um we fix it done.

SPEAKER_01: 40:30

That's why I just wanted to get you on today and have a because I love your energy, I love every and I I just love your mission, and I'm delighted that Midlife Unlimited is able to take that mission, support it, and be part of it. Now, obviously, we're going to be given all your contact details, which are in the show notes, but anyone watching and listening to this will know that. Um, and how people can get in touch with you. But before we go into your three questions, is there a key takeaway apart from just do it, the Nike line?

SPEAKER_00: 41:01

Just do it. Um, I think the key takeaway is that it's it's not for you. I think that's something that I I come across. It's not for you. Um you're dead. Let's be honest. You've left. It's the shit show. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear. Um, it's the absolute mess that you're going to leave behind at a point when you want your family to grieve. You want to give them that gift of grieving, of loving you, of mourning, of being with each other, and not thinking, damn it, I need to do the paperwork. Or, you know, Christ, we've got to go and, you know, do a there's there's a claim being brought against it, or you know, we've got to divvy this up. I have no idea what my wants to love, you know, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 41:53

It is 100% to your loved ones. It is, it is making sure, like we said, the title of the episode, making sure that your your wants are reflected in your will.

SPEAKER_00: 42:06

Yeah, totally. And you know, we our letter of wishes is a brilliant tool. It's it you can put so much in there, you know, there's no limit to how much you can put into your letter of wishes. You can detail every single aspect of what you want, you know. It's and it is such a um, it is such an act of love. And I feel very passionately about, you know, passing down to the generation we haven't even touched on it, okay, the stories. You know, it's for me videos and exactly. So, you know, digital legacies, I feel really passionately about as well. Um, you my both of my kids, we had an amazing birth photographer. We have maternity photos, birth photography, newborn photography, it's all stored on uh our Google photos. And there was this moment of realization, I think my husband and I have over a hundred thousand photos between the two of us on Google Photos. If both of us were hit by a car, if we were in a car crash, if you know the easy jet flight went down, um, no one would know where that is. And yes, would my children end up with a loved one? They would. We've got enough grandparents and aunts and uncles. They would end up with a loved one. Would it be the one we choose? Probably not, but they would end up with someone. But when my daughter says, Where did I take my first steps? I they won't know that because no longer do we have this, this, you know, memory, this book, this photo album, this the video, you know, cassettes that we pass down. Gone are those days. It's now in 100,000 Google photos. I can tell you exactly where it was. I can I can visualize it, and I have a video of it. But my brother, if he was to act as their guardian, he wouldn't know that. He wouldn't know where that that is. And if he hasn't got the password, he hasn't even got access to it. So there's no photos of them, you know, from our perspective.

SPEAKER_01: 43:53

That's a really important thing. Yeah, isn't that yeah?

SPEAKER_00: 43:56

And that's I I'm actually I'm building some tech, I'm building an app um to help people preserve their memories. Um, because I felt I was I exactly this. I was having these conversations with amazing people and and these wonderful stories, and they they tell me about, you know, the journey of this item, this ring, this family Bible. Um, and I'd write my grandmother's ring in a will. It was so black and white and stark, and you know, it it's three ones. I'm all about the stories behind it. I think, yeah. Yeah. And so I'm building an app where people can preserve their emotional legacies, their stories, and pass that down um to a generation as well. So it will um you'll write your will in the app, and then you'll also be able to assign memories and upload photos and voice notes, etc. So I feel really passionately about that that storytelling.

SPEAKER_01: 44:49

I love that, I'm really excited. Well, I'll say we're gonna be giving all your contact details in a minute, and I know that everyone's gonna be wanting to get in contact, even just to have a thinking with you, even just to have that.

SPEAKER_00: 44:59

Yeah, yeah, I do uh free chat. I I'm happy to talk to anyone and everyone. Um, I I do a lot, um, a free initial half an hour consult. Um, no obligation, it's just a chat to see if you know the circumstances are right, what what they need, and then I will make my recommendations. There is no charge for that, no obligation to go ahead. It's just um to sort of help start that conversation.

SPEAKER_01: 45:22

Absolutely. Well, say keep keep listening for that, but before we get to your contact details, you're not going to escape the three questions that I asked each of my fabulous female guests. So, first off, we've talked about music, we talked about my funeral music. But what is your midlife anthem, the song or piece of music that lights you up?

SPEAKER_00: 45:45

So you asked, you you gave me a heads up on this, and uh the the song that immediately came to mind, and I'm just going with my gut on this, yeah, is uh Wake Me Up Before You Go Go by Wham. I just I just it I I danced to it when I was back in my back in my dancing days. I did a show and it was a song I sang. I just I don't think you can listen to that song and not have a smile. I just it just picks you up, you know. I d I dare anyone to listen to Wake Wake Me Up before you go go and and not be sort of bopping along. Um, so yeah, that's I think that's my anthem.

SPEAKER_01: 46:27

No, I love that. Oh I've just I've just got a picture of the wonderful George in his little white shorts. We'll leave it there. I mean and we'll go on to your midlife mantra, the phrase that you live your life by.

SPEAKER_00: 46:44

Okay, so um I I have um a piece of paper. We talked about this, Kate. I have a piece of paper from a diary when I was 16, and uh a very, very dear my one of my best friends died of cancer when we were 16. She but died of a brain tumour. Her name was Christy, and she was larger than life. And I think back to sort of my fascination and um slight obsession with wanting to tell people stories, um, I think part of that was just being exposed to death in at a very early age, especially with someone so young. Um, and she wrote in my diary, um, Belle, which is what she called me, maybe geniuses are dreamers that never give up. And that is that bit of power, I literally have it here. I know you can't see this, but you can, Kate. It's on it's um, it's uh I framed it, I ripped it out of my diary, my school diary, and it has moved house with me. It's moved from Australia to England, it's moved house four or five times. It is always up somewhere where I can see it at my desk. Because for me, just that mantra of just keep going, you know, the geniuses are the people who didn't give up. Um, and that that definitely when I'm in my kind of oh my god, what am I doing? sort of moments, seeing that does definitely help me forge on and uh and push on. And I will also say it's a bit of a it's a bit of a kind of a reminder that not everyone has the privilege of of experiencing life, right? Like, you know, Christy's life got cut short way too early, you know. So that I think there is an element of just doing it for her and doing it for people who don't have the ability to be in the trenches, you know. It's a privilege to even be here, um, even if life is a shit show and you're in the middle of it and you're thick of it, you can't see the wood for the trees, and you don't know what is up or down, and you don't know where you're going, which was definitely me um uh a year and a bit ago. Um, it it's it's worth remembering that it just being alive is is a is a blessing.

SPEAKER_01: 49:02

Oh well that leads beautifully then into what's the title of your autobiography?

SPEAKER_00: 49:07

So I think it's definitely where there's a will, there's a way. Um and I feel that that and that's that's obviously where away wills came from. Um and we don't sort of plaster that everywhere, but yes, where there's a will, there's a way. Um then I think again, tying back to just forging on and it's never too late to reinvent yourself. You know, if if I'd go back and talk to me of a year and a half ago, there's absolutely no way. I would have laughed you out of the room if you'd said you're going to be passionate about the Wills Act of 1837, you know, speaking to your local parliament, you know, local MP about how passionate you are and and writing wills for people. I would have gone, you are absolutely nuts. What are you smoking? That's absolutely nuts.

SPEAKER_01: 49:50

Um I'm a big fan of that whole never say never and surprisingly. Never say never. I love, I love the power of, oh my gosh. I'd never have thought, as you say, I'd never have thought that I'd be doing this.

SPEAKER_00: 50:05

Yeah, it's that mentality of just saying yes, isn't it? And just sort of going, do you know what? What's the worst that can happen? What's the worst that can happen? You know, and and look, the worst, you can lose your house. You cannot pay the afford to pay the bills, you can, you can, you know, default on your mortgage. And but actually then I think when you uh are in the position that I am and you are dealing with people. The other day I drafted a will for someone who was literally on their deathbed. I, you know, I drafted, I went to the hospital room, I you know, they signed in front of me and another person, obviously. Um, you know, you just go, it there are bigger things in life, you know. What just grab life by the balls and give it a go because uh otherwise you could be terminal and and and in hospital, and there there's so much to give and so much to experience. So yeah, just a little reminder, I think, to all of us to keep keep on going.

SPEAKER_01: 50:59

Absolutely. And while we're getting keep on going, let's give your contact details because getting your will sorted out. I'm not trying to flog Nelly's services, it's just a matter of getting us all thinking about it and doing it and making sure we've got something in place. So, how can listeners?

SPEAKER_00: 51:16

I appreciate that. Yeah, so um www.awaywills.com, um, my personal email address, info at awaywills.com, those are the best ways uh to get in touch with us. Um if you call my landline 0203-355-4538, you'll get me. Um, and yes, if you um I I hadn't even thought about this, Kate, but if if your listeners want to uh mention that they've come through you, happy to give them a 20-pound discount um to to um yeah, to to help them with that. So very happy um to speak to anyone. And like I said, half an hour for your consult. And I don't, that's no obligation, I just like to chat. It often goes on for an hour, um, as you can probably tell by my talking.

SPEAKER_01: 51:58

No, I think well, it's so important, isn't it? It's so important. I'm all about the conversations, and I'll make sure that all your details, what they are, they're in the in the um show notes for our episode and on the Midlife Unlimited podcast website. So, listeners, I'd love your feedback on today's episode. I've learned a lot. I knew I would. Still more to learn, but uh no, it'd be fabulous if you could leave a review or you can email me or text me via the link in the show notes. Um come and join the Midlife Unlimited podcast Facebook group. Um, and also there's the website link in the show notes too, with details of my exclusive uh VIP, Midlife Metamorphosis Coaching. And for all you budding experts who want to transform from nervous podcast guest wannabe to the expert that everyone wants on their show, there is my VIP one-to-one pop your podcast cherry offer. So go and check that out. So thank you for joining me, Nelly. It's been absolutely wonderful. And thank you for listening. I look forward to you tuning in next week because don't forget Midlife Unlimited has a new episode every Thursday available wherever you listen to your podcasts. So here's to being fabulous and flourishing together, and to living Midlife Unlimited.